2015 Soccer Thread

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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:Why do you guys think FCSTL will succeed when ACSTL didn't? I talked to a guy who went to some ACSTL games and he said attendance collapsed towards the end. I see the same thing happening with FCSTL although I agree they will sell out in the beginning.
Ownership. ACSTL was owned by a lawyer who had way bigger dreams than he had money.

This team is owned by St. Louis Scott Gallagher, who has been around 40 years and has won some 20+ national youth league titles. So A) they know how to run soccer teams, and B) they've been able to stick around for 40 years. That's no joke.

The reason ACSTL's attendance collapsed near the end was because unrest with ownership. Midway through their season, ownership folded up shop on the women's team (Atheltica), which had been around a year longer and was holding it's own on attendance. Not to mention, US Women's National Team goalie Hope Solo was their keeper. So when they folded the team, there were a lot of people who weren't happy about that, because they were folding a successful team for one that they were trying to make successful. Not to mention the mess with the coach at the beginning of the year, the rumors of ownership not making payroll, etc. It was a mess.

I read an article just yesterday about STLFC ownership saying they are committed to running the best franchise in USL-Pro, which is important. You have to succeed on this level before you get a sniff from MLS. So they're going to be smart about it, plus, other franchises are jealous at how much time STL has to get up and running. They're currently researching and visiting other USL-Pro franchises, they're getting going on marketing, and already have merchandise for sale. This all helps.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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I was actually an Athletica season ticket holder for 2010 but due to circumstances in my life I could only attend 2 games before the team folded. WPS was the female equivalent of EPL I.e. the best soccer league on earth. It was fun seeing the USWNT win and compete in the World Cup and win the Olympic Gold and then follow them in WPS. We had Hope Solo, Lori Chalupny, Shannon Boxx, Aluko, etc. It was almost like an All Star team for women's soccer!

But you knew the league was in trouble when they only charged $215 for season tickets! They should've charged $500 and I would've paid. The new women''s league has drastically reduced salaries to help it survive.

As far as the men's team goes you only list part of the problem. I have spoken to soccer fanatics and many of them don't even consider MLS real soccer! What will they think of a super junior team like this? I think FCSTL will succeed for a few years but eventually will fold.

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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:As far as the men's team goes you only list part of the problem. I have spoken to soccer fanatics and many of them don't even consider MLS real soccer! What will they think of a super junior team like this? I think FCSTL will succeed for a few years but eventually will fold.
Are those 'fanatics' Eurosnobs perhaps? My biggest beef with American soccer fans is that there are too many that just assume anything in Europe is better. Yes, the best leagues in the world are there. But two countries with the World's best leagues, England (EPL) and Spain (La Liga), couldn't make it out of the group stage at the World Cup. They were full of players who play in each of those leagues. Our team was dominated by MLS players, and we held our own. And I think people just assume that if a guy plays in a lesser league in Europe, it's still better than MLS, but that's not always the case.

The MLS is in it's infancy. I've said this all before. If St. Louis gets a team soon, as the league grows, as the money gets bigger, and as the best in-their-prime players start clamoring to play over here, STL is going to be glad they're in on that.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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dmiles2186 wrote:
Misc. Blues wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:Liverpool conceded 3 goals in the final 10 minutes to cost themselves a shot at the EPL title, most likely. Nothing boring about that at all.
That game against Crystal Palace didn't cost us (Liverpool) the title. Even if the Reds had won and not conceded a goal they still would've lost the title on goal difference. No way were we going to score 11 goals in two games. People want to say it was the Chelsea game losing 2-0 that killed us but none of the other teams Arsenal and Manchester City beat Chelsea either so you can't think that way. The Reds went 12-1-1 in the last 14 games. I think drawing against West Brom and Aston Villa is where we lost. I could even blame the 3-3 Blues draw too LOL. City just had the money players to survive the title race. We gave it a heck of a run though...

See you in the Champions league...oops I forgot you are not in the CL...LOL

I like Everton when we don't play them :wink:
Oh, Red Shite fans...looks like you are still a bit bitter at coughing up the title. :mrgreen:
...and what title race were the Toffees in? They choked losing 3 of the last 5...if you guys had beat Crystal Palace and Southampton you would've beat Arsenal for 4th place to get CL...

I'm not bitter because most of us Reds fans expected to make a jump to 4th at best. Anything above was bonus because we were underdogs moving up from 7th 2012-13 season to 4th. The EPL is tough at the top. We had a great run and I think even though we lost Suarez "the Cannibal" we are a stronger team now squad wise.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:As far as the men's team goes you only list part of the problem. I have spoken to soccer fanatics and many of them don't even consider MLS real soccer! What will they think of a super junior team like this? I think FCSTL will succeed for a few years but eventually will fold.
Are those 'fanatics' Eurosnobs perhaps? My biggest beef with American soccer fans is that there are too many that just assume anything in Europe is better. Yes, the best leagues in the world are there. But two countries with the World's best leagues, England (EPL) and Spain (La Liga), couldn't make it out of the group stage at the World Cup. They were full of players who play in each of those leagues. Our team was dominated by MLS players, and we held our own. And I think people just assume that if a guy plays in a lesser league in Europe, it's still better than MLS, but that's not always the case.

The MLS is in it's infancy. I've said this all before. If St. Louis gets a team soon, as the league grows, as the money gets bigger, and as the best in-their-prime players start clamoring to play over here, STL is going to be glad they're in on that.
MLS would probably be rated between English League 1 and Championship.

You being an avid footy fan you should know that throwing a bunch of All-Stars together for your Country doesn't always work out do to the tactics or playing players out of position a lot of times just so they can put a Marquee player in the squad. So I wouldn't rate a WC performance by not getting out of the group stages. The US did well and made some Countries take notice but losing in the knock-outs round one is the same as a team dominating the groups and losing in round one. All the teams that moved on in the knockouts were the teams that won their groups. USA were 1-1-2 for the tourney. They had a lot of heart but in reality they only won 1 game.

I think MLS is getting better but it has a long way to go. Team USA is getting better but they also have a long way to go.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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Misc. Blues wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:As far as the men's team goes you only list part of the problem. I have spoken to soccer fanatics and many of them don't even consider MLS real soccer! What will they think of a super junior team like this? I think FCSTL will succeed for a few years but eventually will fold.
Are those 'fanatics' Eurosnobs perhaps? My biggest beef with American soccer fans is that there are too many that just assume anything in Europe is better. Yes, the best leagues in the world are there. But two countries with the World's best leagues, England (EPL) and Spain (La Liga), couldn't make it out of the group stage at the World Cup. They were full of players who play in each of those leagues. Our team was dominated by MLS players, and we held our own. And I think people just assume that if a guy plays in a lesser league in Europe, it's still better than MLS, but that's not always the case.

The MLS is in it's infancy. I've said this all before. If St. Louis gets a team soon, as the league grows, as the money gets bigger, and as the best in-their-prime players start clamoring to play over here, STL is going to be glad they're in on that.
MLS would probably be rated between English League 1 and Championship.

You being an avid footy fan you should know that throwing a bunch of All-Stars together for your Country doesn't always work out do to the tactics or playing players out of position a lot of times just so they can put a Marquee player in the squad. So I wouldn't rate a WC performance by not getting out of the group stages. The US did well and made some Countries take notice but losing in the knock-outs round one is the same as a team dominating the groups and losing in round one. All the teams that moved on in the knockouts were the teams that won their groups. USA were 1-1-2 for the tourney. They had a lot of heart but in reality they only won 1 game.

I think MLS is getting better but it has a long way to go. Team USA is getting better but they also have a long way to go.
I agree on all points, especially your thoughts on my comparison of the US team and England/Spain. But I get tired of people just constantly crapping on MLS while overlooking some of these facts. There are quality players in the league. The goal is to fill the entire league with quality to great players. But the potential is there to do so. It's going to come down to money. The fan support is there. Once the TV audience follows (and thus the big TV contracts), the teams will have money to spend. And once they have money to spend, this league becomes a destination, not a retirement home.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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Miles, what billionaire will fall out of the sky into St.Louis and buy us an MLS team? There is no one willing to take such a plunge. The dumbest thing about MLS is you need to be a billionaire to own a team in a garage league!

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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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That's true for most sports for teams that succeed. Millionaires can't compete with Billionaires...that is the real world too not just for sports.

MLS needs relegation like all the other leagues around the globe. Last place stays in the league even if they don't win a single game and receive a #1 draft pick.

The NHL and MLB should use relegation as well. If you were booted down a level like NHL to AHL or MLB to AA or MLS to NASL you would have better competition. Getting rewarded for tanking a season would stop if teams were relegated.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:Miles, what billionaire will fall out of the sky into St.Louis and buy us an MLS team? There is no one willing to take such a plunge. The dumbest thing about MLS is you need to be a billionaire to own a team in a garage league!
They won't. That's why I said that St. Louis has to show up and support this team. Look at Portland, look at Seattle. They proved on lower levels they had unwavering support. People with big time cash came and backed their bid for an MLS team.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:Miles, what billionaire will fall out of the sky into St.Louis and buy us an MLS team? There is no one willing to take such a plunge. The dumbest thing about MLS is you need to be a billionaire to own a team in a garage league!
They won't. That's why I said that St. Louis has to show up and support this team. Look at Portland, look at Seattle. They proved on lower levels they had unwavering support. People with big time cash came and backed their bid for an MLS team.
I think St.Louis is more of a USMNT soccer town. If MLS came here do you really think they could consistently average 18,000 fans a game? I think in the beginning they would but over a decade I bet it would fall to 10K to 15K a game. I have serious doubts St.Louis could support MLS in the long term. This is the Show Me state so they need to show me!

By the way, I'm hardly the only one saying this. Over the last 10 years I have seen media reports that historically St.Louis is one of the biggest soccer towns in America (like in the 1950s) but not as much anymore.

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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:Miles, what billionaire will fall out of the sky into St.Louis and buy us an MLS team? There is no one willing to take such a plunge. The dumbest thing about MLS is you need to be a billionaire to own a team in a garage league!
They won't. That's why I said that St. Louis has to show up and support this team. Look at Portland, look at Seattle. They proved on lower levels they had unwavering support. People with big time cash came and backed their bid for an MLS team.
I think St.Louis is more of a USMNT soccer town. If MLS came here do you really think they could consistently average 18,000 fans a game? I think in the beginning they would but over a decade I bet it would fall to 10K to 15K a game. I have serious doubts St.Louis could support MLS in the long term. This is the Show Me state so they need to show me!

By the way, I'm hardly the only one saying this. Over the last 10 years I have seen media reports that historically St.Louis is one of the biggest soccer towns in America (like in the 1950s) but not as much anymore.
Thus the reason I said in the World Cup thread that St. Louis needs to stop relying on their laurels and just assuming they can get by on reputation alone. It would be interesting to see how St. Louis would respond to soccer. The MLS schedule goes head to head with MLB...and we know who wins that battle in this city. But again, this city HAS to show it will support even a lower level team before they get a sniff of MLS.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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If somebody wants a MUCH cheaper soccer alternative why not bring the Athletica back? I bet a new team in the women's league would be $100k or less and salaries are $6K to $30K, the lowest ever.

How much was the league fee to bring in FCSTL? What is the salary range or average salary in the men's league?

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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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I agree with this wholeheartedly.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/what- ... an-soccer/

Imagine this scenario: You grow up playing soccer in a suburb of an American city. You’re a talented high school player but not a nationally recognized prospect, and only a few colleges show interest in you. You go to an American university, play in four NCAA tournaments, make all-conference three seasons, and in your senior year you’re named an All-American and the College Men’s Scholar All-America Player of the Year. You’re not a highly regarded professional prospect, but you do well at the combine, and on draft day, to your surprise, your hometown club drafts you in the first round.

You play a small role with the club your rookie year, a smaller one your second year. When you decide to dedicate yourself to becoming a better professional — transforming your body in the process — the club provides you all the support and facilities you need. Your club goes through a rebranding and builds a state-of-the-art stadium, and you earn a starting spot on the team. You and a teammate, who once lived in your basement, become the nucleus of the team, and your side emerges as the best in the league. Your parents are able to come to your games. When you look in the crowd, you see your friends, people you knew growing up. You’re a fan favorite. In your fourth year, you’re named the Defender of the Year.

The next season, your team wins the league championship. Along the way, you earn a starting spot on the U.S. men’s national team. You play all but 45 minutes of four games at a World Cup, and are regarded as one of the country’s best performers.

Now you’re 27. The summer transfer window is open. About 10 European clubs are interested in you. Most of them are middle-to-bottom-of-the-table English Premier League teams. You have the chance to make more money, play better competition, maybe improve your game. Do you walk away from your hometown club, the one that made you who you are, for that opportunity?

That was Matt Besler’s story. If he played any other American sport, he’d be universally lauded as a hero for deciding to stay with his hometown club, Sporting Kansas City. But Besler plays soccer, and for the American soccer player, the decision whether to be a homegrown hero and or a hometown heartbreaker is more nuanced.

Besler’s situation speaks to the Catch-22 of American soccer: Players can develop in America, but, according to conventional wisdom, they need to leave America to become world-class.

Besler and that guy who lived in his basement, Graham Zusi, were two of the first USMNT players to have European clubs express interest in signing them after the World Cup — with Besler getting more attention. The Sporting K.C. duo found themselves at the heart of the debate about where the future of the USMNT might lie: MLS or abroad.

On Saturday, Besler and Zusi announced their decisions: They had signed Designated Player contracts with Kansas City. The reaction to the news among American fans — on Twitter, in comments on articles — was mixed. Some criticized the move (or lack thereof), claiming Besler’s and Zusi’s decisions to stay in MLS showed they aren’t willing to push themselves against the best competition in the world.

That attitude elects to ignore where the sport has come from in America and where it is going.

Where it’s come from: On the 1994 U.S. World Cup squad, only seven of the 23 players had professional experience heading into the tournament. Twenty years later, professional experience isn’t an issue, and the U.S. advanced out of the World Cup’s so-called “group of death.”

That marked increase in professional experience is due to one thing: Major League Soccer. The majority of the American-born players on the United States World Cup team — 15 of them — play or played in MLS.

And that’s going to continue to be the case. U.S. Soccer’s Development Academy has about 3,700 kids playing in it, with about 650 of those kids playing for MLS Development Academy teams. The academies are developing something we’ve never had in U.S. soccer: a talent pool.

It’s important to keep in mind where the concept of the academy came from: Germany. Yes, the country that just won the World Cup with a bunch of players who had been developed in Germany, by German clubs, since they were kids. Major League Soccer is not the Bundesliga, but the concept is the same: don’t rely on other countries to solve your player development issues; do it yourself. (We’ll see if Brazil gets the message.)

Besler and Zusi, and the majority of players on the national team we just watched compete in Brazil, probably won’t ever win a World Cup. But the younger generation behind them — the 17-to-20-year-olds, the D’Andre Yedlins — might.

One way to help that dream become a reality is for players like Besler and Zusi to stay in MLS, be well compensated for their talents, and have them help develop the next wave of American talent. That’s exactly what Besler can do at Sporting. The club has 17-year-old center back Erik Palmer-Brown, a Homegrown Player who is considered one of the best prospects in America — so good that Juventus tried to buy him in January.

The impact that Besler could have on Palmer-Brown — a hometown kid like himself — shows that Besler might be able to do more for himself in Europe, but he can do more for American soccer in Kansas City.

Andrew Lewellen (@AndrewHLewellen), a former college soccer player and youth coach, has written about the sport for ESPN The Magazine, ESPN.com, the New York Times, and other publications.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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But won't it be better if Besler and Zusi play with and against the best in Europe to improve their game to the next level? Staying in MLS only shows they're avoiding playing the best in the world!

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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:But won't it be better if Besler and Zusi play with and against the best in Europe to improve their game to the next level? Staying in MLS only shows they're avoiding playing the best in the world!
'Avoiding playing the best players in the world?' Let's see, they just played Christiano Ronaldo, the team that won the World Cup, and a Belgium team full of EPL stars.

That article lists a bevy of players who went over to Europe and floundered. Like the article states, these guys are 27. They might have just played in the only WC either will play in (although they could still make it in 2018). But they are good players. If they stay here, they push the quality of the league up. That only flows down to the young guys, the Deandre Yedlin's, that are getting the chance to play with these guys.

So yes, Besler and Zusi might be hurting their ceiling, but at the same time, they're raising the ceiling of MLS. That's important.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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Miles, remember all the tail you said Gotze would be getting after his WC winning goal? Turns out he's a dumkopf! He just has 1 girlfriend! I think I speak for most men that if you are only 22 and have an entire nation worshipping you then you would enjoy the benefits of being single!

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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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Lukaku to Everton! Besic to Everton! Barkley re-up's for 4 years!

*Heel click*
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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dmiles2186 wrote:Lukaku to Everton! Besic to Everton! Barkley re-up's for 4 years!

*Heel click*
Lukaku is a good signing for you guys at £25 but for the life of me I just don't get why Chelsea didn't want him. I just don't get it. I heard that the Reds made an inquiry and Chelsea wanted over £30M for him. No real sources but from a friend of mine across the pond. Just goes to show Chelsea see the Reds more of a threat.

Barkley is turning into quite a nice little player. Good job by the Toffees to lock him up until Real Madrid or Manchester City comes for him.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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Misc. Blues wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:Lukaku to Everton! Besic to Everton! Barkley re-up's for 4 years!

*Heel click*
Lukaku is a good signing for you guys at £25 but for the life of me I just don't get why Chelsea didn't want him. I just don't get it. I heard that the Reds made an inquiry and Chelsea wanted over £30M for him. No real sources but from a friend of mine across the pond. Just goes to show Chelsea see the Reds more of a threat.

Barkley is turning into quite a nice little player. Good job by the Toffees to lock him up until Real Madrid or Manchester City comes for him.
I don't either. I'm not sure if Murinho doesn't like him or what. I mean, here's a guy who has scored 60+ EPL goals before age 21, and you decide instead of using him to re-sign an ancient Drogba, keep Torres, and go with Costa. Puzzling.
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Re: 2014 Soccer Thread

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Meanwhile, the Red Devils have been busy, signing the prolific striker Sack Kartoffeln from the Bundesliga!

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