Chicago Wolves --> Las Vegas

[ComradeT]

Wolves are now the affiliate of LVGK. Levin's reasoning resonates with what many of us here felt over the past few years.

Firing of the assistants looks like a huge cover-up now. Lack of interest in developing young talent finally caught up with the Blues.

Part of the problem, Levin said, was his partnership with the Blues, which he called "a painful relationship for periods of time."

"St. Louis would like to see their guys win, but wouldn't put any effort into doing it," Levin said, noting that Wolves players signed to AHL contracts produced more on the ice than those signed to Blues contracts. "They didn't do what we expected them to do, and it was difficult."

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... en-knights

[glen a richter]

We need our own AHL affiliate, but evidently don't care enough. This team is incompetent.

[theohall]

All the more reason for the Blues to dump Armstrong and bring in someone like Julien Brisebois who completely understands proper management of an AHL affiliate.

[gaijin]

So I know it's been discussed before, but the great parking lot in my brain is feeling kind of full- what happens to the Wolves players' rights now?

[theohall]

So I know it's been discussed before, but the great parking lot in my brain is feeling kind of full- what happens to the Wolves players' rights now?

Absolutely nothing. Per presser today, Blues prospects will still be playing for the Wolves. Armstrong says he and McPhee have good relationship, blah, blah, blah. So nothing really changed other than the Wolves are the official affiliate of Vegas and the Blues are a "kind of" affiliate which is basically status quo other than adding Vegas to the picture who will have more control than the Blues ever had.

[F Keenan]

When I read this yesterday I couldn't help but think of the article (Possibly tweet?) that mentioned that the Blues were looking to have an AHL franchise in Kansas City to be owned by Lamar Hunt, then the AHL quickly came out and said that there were no plans for a team in Kansas City. Hunt already owns the Missouri Mavericks of the ECHL. Last year the Blues announced a partnership with the Mavericks to promote youth hockey in Missouri, but the partnership ends there. The Mavericks would continue their affiliation with the Islanders. Any chance the Blues were told to go in together with the Golden Knights this year so that Vegas could field an AHL team without having to fill an entire roster, then next year allow Lamar Hunt to take the Mavericks to the AHL to be the Blues affiliate? If I get a chance I'll try and dig up some of the info that I'm trying to recall.

[F Keenan]

Also, the Mavericks announced a name change in March and ended their affiliation with the Islanders.

[F Keenan]

http://fox4kc.com/2016/08/23/missouri-m ... uis-blues/

Missouri Mavericks reach agreement to work with St. Louis Blues

INDEPENDENCE, Mo. — Missouri hockey fans, unite! The Missouri Mavericks will be working with their puck-handling brothers across the state, the St. Louis Blues this year.

The two Show Me State hockey organizations reached an agreement on Tuesday for the 2016-17 season. The Mavericks and the Blues are working on a number of promotional efforts for a Blues preseason game to be played against the Washington Capitals at the Spring Center on Oct. 5.

“This working agreement with the St. Louis Blues is an opportunity for the Missouri Mavericks organization to further engage hockey fans throughout Missouri and Kansas. The Blues have a significant fan base in the Kansas City area and they will play a preseason NHL game at the Sprint Center on October 5th. As organizations we are like-minded on growing youth hockey throughout the region and looking to grow cross-promotional opportunities for both organizations,” Mavericks Owner Lamar Hunt Jr. said in a statement on the Mavericks website.

“Under this working agreement we have the ability to collaborate with the Blues across multiple levels. It’s also exciting for our organization and our fans to add another NHL team to our brand,” Mavericks General Manager Brent Thiessen said.

While the two clubs strengthen their regional ties, the New York Islanders remain the Mavericks’ primary NHL affiliate.

“The New York Islanders remain our primary NHL affiliate and the Missouri Mavericks owe a lot of last year’s success on the ice to this relationship. For that we are very grateful. Our primary focus, as a development league and team, is to further the growth of the New York Islanders’ prospects they assign us and work with them on a daily basis to achieve that goal,” Thiessen added.

As the NHL season draws nearer, the Blues will begin cuts to secure their final roster. They have in the past sent players down to their American Hockey League affiliate in Chicago. The new collaboration will allow the Blues to send players to the Mavericks, who play in the East Coast Hockey League.

The agreement and also includes options for marketing opportunities for both franchises.

“The St. Louis Blues are excited to begin a new partnership with the Missouri Mavericks, extending our reach to hockey fans across the great state of Missouri,” Blues CEO and President of Business Operations, Chris Zimmerman said. “Importantly, we look forward to contributing to the work Lamar Hunt Jr. and his team are implementing to grow the game of hockey in the Kansas City region.”

[F Keenan]

Report: Blues AHL affiliation to move to Kansas City
Posted: Nov 30, 2016 1:11 PM CST
Updated: Nov 30, 2016 3:10 PM CST
By Brenden Schaeffer, KMOV SportsCONNECT


Since 2013, the AHL affiliate of the St. Louis Blues has been the Chicago Wolves. As early as next year, that may no longer be the case. Instead, the Blues may take a step toward building their brand on the west side of Missouri.

According to Lou Korac, Blues beat writer for NHL.com, the Blues plan to move their AHL affiliation to Kansas City as early as next season. Korac says Lamar Hunt Jr., son of Kansas City Chiefs founder, Lamar Hunt, will own the affiliate along with former St. Louis Blues defenseman Tom Tilley.

This is a move that has bubbled beneath the surface for months. With the Blues’ three-year agreement with the Wolves expiring before the 2016-2017 season, the two sides agreed to a new contract. However, when the parties announced it was only a one-year deal, it became clear the marriage was not viewed as a long-term solution.

The Blues have had a unique arrangement with the Wolves. St. Louis had no ownership stake in the Chicago franchise, but had a working role in decisions it made. For instance, the Blues had some impact on coaching decisions for the Wolves, as those coaches were charged with the development of Blues prospects during their time in Chicago.

When rumors began regarding a potential NHL expansion team in Las Vegas, some wondered whether the Wolves would seek to pair its affiliation with that new franchise. Now that the Vegas Golden Knights are officially set to begin their existence in 2017, that pairing would seem to be a likely fit.

While it has not been made official, Korac’s sources tell him the deal for the Blues new affiliate is close to being a done deal. Kansas City could host the new affiliate franchise in the Sprint Center, which opened in downtown Kansas City in 2007. The Blues are familiar with the location, having played several exhibition games there in recent years. Conversations surrounding expansion have often included the Sprint Center as a footnote, but the building has never has housed a major professional franchise. The AHL is no NBA or NHL, but in the Blues’ minor-league affiliate, Kansas City may found have the next best thing.

[F Keenan]

http://www.stlouisgametime.com/2017/1/3 ... s-in-lurch

Blues fans who were hoping to see the team’s top prospects without leaving the state may be in for a disappointment, and the Blues may be searching for a place for those players to play.

Stephen Whyno of the Associated Press reported on Twitter today that David Andrews, the president/CEO of the American Hockey League, said the league is “not going to Kansas City,” leaving open the question of how the AHL would accommodate the incoming Vegas Golden Knights and refuting rumors that the Blues would have an affiliate there.

The Blues currently have an affiliate agreement with the Chicago Wolves, though that agreement expires at the conclusion of this season. The arrangement with Chicago has had both positives and negatives for the Blues, as veteran AHL players have been attracted to the city, but the lack of complete organizational control has created some friction over strategy and philosophy.

In November, NHL.com’s Lou Korac reported that the Blues had “pretty much a done deal” for an affiliation with a new AHL team to play in Kansas City’s Sprint Center. Today’s news casts that possibility in doubt.

The team would supposedly have been owned by Lamar Hunt, Jr., whose father founded the Kansas City Chiefs, and who currently owns the ECHL’s Missouri Mavericks. The Blues currently use the Mavericks as their ECHL affiliate.

Korac’s report also suggested that the Blues would welcome an investment from Hunt in the near future, though the status of that investment remained unclear following today’s news.

[theohall]

And here is the article in which the Mavericks deny everything KSDK, Korac, and St Louis GameTime were reporting. This article was released very shortly after Korac's claims on Nov 30th.
Missouri Mavericks deny report outlining plans to take over AHL team for St. Louis Blues

The Missouri Mavericks refuted a report Wednesday that owner Lamar Hunt Jr. has agreed to take over an American Hockey League affiliate of the St. Louis Blues.

A report Wednesday from the “In the Slot” blog and TV station KSDK in St. Louis said that Hunt and Kansas City Youth Hockey Association president Tom Tilley would own the AHL team and house it at Sprint Center, noting that the team would replace the Blues’ current relationship with the AHL’s Chicago Wolves. The report cited a source as saying the plans were “pretty much a done deal.”

When reached by The Star on Wednesday, Tilley said, “There’s no truth to that at all.”

The Mavericks, who play in the ECHL, entered into a “working agreement” with the Blues this year, which by extension places them in an arrangement with the Chicago Wolves as well. The Blues and Wolves have assigned players to the Mavericks this season.

In a statement Wednesday, the Mavericks denied there is any agreement to alter that relationship.

The Mavericks are the ECHL affiliate for the New York Islanders.

“Lamar Hunt Jr. and the Missouri Mavericks hockey team have a working relationship with the Blues and Chicago Wolves through the balance of the season, and have no plans at this time to leave the ECHL or Silverstein Eye Center Arena,” the statement read. “Any speculation would be just that. We are very happy with our partnership with the Blues at the National Hockey League level and the Wolves at the American Hockey league level, and appreciate the opportunity to develop the seven prospects that have played with the Mavericks so far.

“As we work to continue to grow the game locally in Kansas City, we are thrilled to partner with the Blues as they share our vision of growing the game of hockey throughout Missouri.”

I think I'd take what Tom Tilley is saying being directly involved with the Mavericks and KC hockey over rumors from basically one reporter, Korac, who clearly hadn't verified things beyond whatever his source told him.

Still, Blues management seemingly has no clue how to properly manage things in relation to an AHL affiliate based on what Levin is saying and what's still going on. I find it funny Levin essentially blasted the Blues while the team he is managing will still be in a relationship with the Blues for the 17-18 season.

[Toasted Oates]

So it's either:

The Blues have an under the table deal w/ Vegas/the league to help Vegas fill out their AHL roster for a year and KC has always been there for next year.

Or

The Blues are taking a wild leap of faith that something will get worked out within the next year with a new AHL affiliate.

Wouldn't it be absolutely insane to take a risk like this?

Also, I don't take Levin very seriously. If the Wolves had made a deeper run, he would likely be singing a different tune.

[theohall]

The Blues have an under the table deal w/ Vegas/the league to help Vegas fill out their AHL roster for a year and KC has always been there for next year.

There is no under the table deal and there is no deal with KC other than what existed last season.

Straight from Armstrong via PD Morning Skate. I bolded and italiced part of this, because it will directly impact the development of Husso when (my when, instead of if) Vegas drafts/signs/trades for a goalie to develop of their own. Major Blues fail for not getting something done, already.

The Blues will continue to have the Chicago Wolves as the home for their minor-league players, but the Blues will no longer be the AHL team's primary affiliate.

The Wolves announced Tuesday that they will become the affiliate of the expansion Vegas Golden Knights starting next season. The AHL isn't expanding for 2017-18, so while there will be 31 NHL teams, there will be only 30 AHL teams.

The Blues, instead, will “associate” with the Golden Knights and share the team.

“The St. Louis Blues will not renew our primary affiliation with the AHL's Chicago Wolves past the 2016-17 season,” general manager Doug Armstrong said. “We will associate with the Vegas Golden Knights and supply players to the Golden Knights' AHL affiliate next season.”

What that means is that the Blues won't control the team, the coaching or the ice time that players get. Chicago was an instrumental part in the Blues' success in 2016-17, with coach Craig Berube and his staff molding players like Magnus Paajarvi into NHL-caliber players. While there should be room on the Chicago roster because Vegas won't have a full complement of players, the Blues will have no say in how they will be used or who will be teaching them. This could especially matter if the starting goalie were a Vegas property who got most of the games.

Armstrong said he thought the situation could work for one year.

"I would think if it extended past this season it would be (a competitive disadvantage)," Armstrong said. "Part of my comfort level is my relationship with George McPhee (the Vegas GM). We've talked extensively on the benefits of this relationship. They'll have players this year that will go to major juniors. I think quite honestly it's a competitive advantage for Vegas and us to join forces. We could put better products into the program.

"If it went past this year, it would be a disadvantage. We saw this coming. We looked at different opportunities, but for 17-18 it wasn't there. We see a really good synergy with Vegas because of their birth into the NHL."

Armstrong said the Blues have spoken with other teams about taking in Blues prospects on their farm teams if there wasn't room for all of them on the Chicago roster.

The Wolves have been the Blues' farm team since 2013-14. Prior to Chicago, the Blues had a farm team in Peoria from 2005-06 until they affiliated with Chicago, and prior to that their farm team was in Worcester, Mass.

There had been talk of a new farm team in Kansas City, but that has not reached fruition, at least for 2017-18. Armstrong said that the team will work hard this season to have a team of its own in place for 2018-19.

"We were hoping to have it done this year, but we're not starting from ground zero on this today," Armstrong said. "We had some irons in the fire, but they didn't take hold. We talked to a couple groups, but it didn't happen. Now we have to put it to the forefront. The next year, there will be 31 NHL teams and 31 American League affiliates."

[Toasted Oates]

I hear you. I figured the unlikelihood of that scenario would be pretty obvious.

Isn't this quite a risk, though? This is just insanity unless this happens around the league and I'm ignorant to it, which is certainly possible.

And could Husso not play in another league somewhere or has that ship sailed?

[theohall]

This is insanity and it seems to happen for organizations which struggle developing their prospects (Islanders, Blues as examples).

The option to get Husso time if Vegas interferes is at the ECHL level with the Mavericks, AFAIK, but that depends on what the Islanders want as the Mavericks are the Islanders primary ECHL affiliate making the Blues 2nd fiddle with them, too, just like with Vegas. Again, insanity and Armstrong let this happen. If St Louis wants their own ECHL affiliate, Jacksonville isn't affiliated with anyone, yet, and is rebuilding a team whose players were sent throughout the ECHL after the 15-16 season when the Evansville Icemen disbanded. Opportunity if Armstrong would pull his head out of his butt.

This is absolutely horrible management. The successful teams which seemingly can stick in talent regardless of the number of injuries and still be competitive (Tampa, Pittsburgh) have a primary affiliation and a strong relationship with said team, as in an Asst GM of the NHL club is GM of the AHL team. This is what the Blues should be doing. Have a primary AHL affiliate with Brodeur as GM of said affiliate while still being Asst GM for the Blues. It's one of the best ways to develop a GM. Unfortunately, we have Armstrong and ownership's apparent unwillingness to invest in the AHL level, unlike teams which seem to be more competitive every year.

Don't be surprised if Buffalo within 4 years miraculously has depth out of nowhere given what Botteril was doing with Pittsburgh. Exactly what the Blues aren't doing and seemingly won't do. The Blues want a primary affiliation, but don't want to pay anything for it or provide the management support, or that's how it seems. Outside of coaches, who from the Blues was involved in managing the Wolves as a team? Identifying AHL level prospects. Helping with contracts. You know, the things to build a competitive team. I don't know of any Blues staff in management with the Wolves.

[glen a richter]

Unless some backroom deal was agreed upon that rids us of both Lehtera and Bouwmeester, I don't really care why Vegas has control of Chicago now. All I care about is that this team is inept at development because they don't control their own AHL franchise and that's a tremendous problem that needs to be addressed.

And yes, this bodes very badly for the development, especially, of Husso. But there are a number of guys who made good forward strides this year--Blais, Dunn, Schmaltz. I'd hate to see this mess them up.

[Irish Blues]

All I care about is that this team is inept at development because they don't control their own AHL franchise and that's a tremendous problem that needs to be addressed.

The bolded part predates the split from Peoria and going to Chicago. Seriously, look at the guys on the current roster and figure out who spent notable time in the AHL. Jake Allen is the "standout" and that was more because he was 3rd on the depth chart behind Halak and Elliott, and arguably he was 4th behind Bishop while we still had Big Ben. Joel Edmundson is your #2 guy, Ryan Reaves is #3. Everyone else? They either went straight from college/juniors to the NHL, made the jump from the AHL in less than 80 games, or washed out.

(Maybe you give credit for Ian Cole, but he also got shipped between the NHL and AHL for 3 seasons, with a high in any one location in a season of 44 games in 2009-10 and a 2nd highest total of 34 games in the 2011-12 season.)

Our crowning achievement over the last 12 years? Ben Bishop, and at the time he finally got ready for the NHL we were chasing the President's Trophy with Elliott stoning the rest of the league while Halak was the expensive backup as; not a chance in hell we were upsetting that to get Bishop the games needed to prevent him from being a Group VI free agent. The next few best? Roman Polak (87 games over 2 seasons), Jay McClement, Chris Porter, D.J. King, and Jeff Woywitka.

Player development in this franchise has been terrible for years. It's an organizational problem that spans multiple owners and multiple GM's.

[theohall]

All I care about is that this team is inept at development because they don't control their own AHL franchise and that's a tremendous problem that needs to be addressed.

The bolded part predates the split from Peoria and going to Chicago. Seriously, look at the guys on the current roster and figure out who spent notable time in the AHL. Jake Allen is the "standout" and that was more because he was 3rd on the depth chart behind Halak and Elliott, and arguably he was 4th behind Bishop while we still had Big Ben. Joel Edmundson is your #2 guy, Ryan Reaves is #3. Everyone else? They either went straight from college/juniors to the NHL, made the jump from the AHL in less than 80 games, or washed out.

(Maybe you give credit for Ian Cole, but he also got shipped between the NHL and AHL for 3 seasons, with a high in any one location in a season of 44 games in 2009-10 and a 2nd highest total of 34 games in the 2011-12 season.)

Our crowning achievement over the last 12 years? Ben Bishop, and at the time he finally got ready for the NHL we were chasing the President's Trophy with Elliott stoning the rest of the league while Halak was the expensive backup as; not a chance in hell we were upsetting that to get Bishop the games needed to prevent him from being a Group VI free agent. The next few best? Roman Polak (87 games over 2 seasons), Jay McClement, Chris Porter, D.J. King, and Jeff Woywitka.

Player development in this franchise has been terrible for years. It's an organizational problem that spans multiple owners and multiple GM's.

Almost everything you listed above happened under the management of Doug Armstrong. Hired in 2008. Ending of the Rivermen was entirely under Armstrong since the beginning of the end was 2011. The Blues have had this partial relationship with Chicago since 2013 - that's 4 years in which Armstrong hasn't found a better partnership.

Elliott, Halak, Bishop, Allen situation - all under Armstrong's leadership.
Ian Cole - drafted before Armstrong, but once leaving Notre Dame, the entire development path was led by Armstrong.

What has Armstrong done to improve the development of prospects in the 10 years (08-17) he's been the general manager? And it's going to be worse this year, not better. It's disgusting to look at other teams and see how strong a relationship they have with their AHL team and see players step in and provide meaningful contributions while Blues prospects stay in the AHL and never truly develop. Of course, keeping a bunch of mediocre players under contract and claiming your team will compete doesn't really help provide opportunities for younger, more talented players.

[Irish Blues]

All I care about is that this team is inept at development because they don't control their own AHL franchise and that's a tremendous problem that needs to be addressed.

The bolded part predates the split from Peoria and going to Chicago. Seriously, look at the guys on the current roster and figure out who spent notable time in the AHL. Jake Allen is the "standout" and that was more because he was 3rd on the depth chart behind Halak and Elliott, and arguably he was 4th behind Bishop while we still had Big Ben. Joel Edmundson is your #2 guy, Ryan Reaves is #3. Everyone else? They either went straight from college/juniors to the NHL, made the jump from the AHL in less than 80 games, or washed out.

(Maybe you give credit for Ian Cole, but he also got shipped between the NHL and AHL for 3 seasons, with a high in any one location in a season of 44 games in 2009-10 and a 2nd highest total of 34 games in the 2011-12 season.)

Our crowning achievement over the last 12 years? Ben Bishop, and at the time he finally got ready for the NHL we were chasing the President's Trophy with Elliott stoning the rest of the league while Halak was the expensive backup as; not a chance in hell we were upsetting that to get Bishop the games needed to prevent him from being a Group VI free agent. The next few best? Roman Polak (87 games over 2 seasons), Jay McClement, Chris Porter, D.J. King, and Jeff Woywitka.

Player development in this franchise has been terrible for years. It's an organizational problem that spans multiple owners and multiple GM's.

Almost everything you listed above happened under the management of Doug Armstrong. Hired in 2008. Ending of the Rivermen was entirely under Armstrong since the beginning of the end was 2011. The Blues have had this partial relationship with Chicago since 2013 - that's 4 years in which Armstrong hasn't found a better partnership.

Elliott, Halak, Bishop, Allen situation - all under Armstrong's leadership.
Ian Cole - drafted before Armstrong, but once leaving Notre Dame, the entire development path was led by Armstrong.

What has Armstrong done to improve the development of prospects in the 10 years (08-17) he's been the general manager? And it's going to be worse this year, not better. It's disgusting to look at other teams and see how strong a relationship they have with their AHL team and see players step in and provide meaningful contributions while Blues prospects stay in the AHL and never truly develop. Of course, keeping a bunch of mediocre players under contract and claiming your team will compete doesn't really help provide opportunities for younger, more talented players.

I don't disagree that player development has been pretty brutal under Armstrong. And trust me, I'm not a fan of Armstrong's general body of work here (especially after you get past the first season here).

Ending the Peoria affiliation - I believe that was a $ decision made by the Checketts regime. I wouldn't pin that on Armstrong. Finding something better? Can't recall what the terms of the original agreement were, but I'm not sure I'd pin that entirely on him either. Even if there was another AHL franchise available that we could have taken over, ownership would have had to sign off on it.

Bishop - see above. Even in the short stint he had in '08-09, there wasn't a sign he was really ready for the NHL. Maybe you pin him for not having Bishop as the backup to start in '11-12, knowing he needed 15 games in the NHL to not be an unrestricted free agent - but again, nothing Bishop had done to that point was saying, "he's ready to be an NHL goalie."

Cole, ... ugh. As much as he was maligned here, most people forget that he split his first 3 seasons between St. Louis and Peoria, logging a total of 167 games. Total. Never more than 44 in any one spot, never more than 26 in the NHL. Plus, he was on Hitchcock's short chain every time he made any kind of mistake. He needed to either be in Peoria, or with the Blues - but either way, he needed to be playing every night so he could get comfortable. That, I do blame Armstrong for.

The rest of your last paragraph: totally agree. As noted, if guys haven't jumped straight over (read: been fairly high draft picks getting lobbed into the lineup because they have that much talent / we have that little depth), they're languishing in the AHL and wasting away. (Though, guys like Ty Rattie and Brett Sonne busting aren't a surprise to me; I wanted both dealt before their flaws became apparent.)

[theohall]

Ending the Peoria affiliation - I believe that was a $ decision made by the Checketts regime. I wouldn't pin that on Armstrong. Finding something better?

This is a good point of discussion. Yes, the sale of the Rivermen began under Checketts and wound up being finalized under Stillman. Here is the problem. Armstrong took over on May 29 2008, 5/4 years before Stillman was ever involved, as Blues GM. So he was intimately involved in the sale of Peoria 4 years ago, knew the relationship with Chicago was not good, to the point the Blues top goalie prospect got sent to the ECHL and what has he done in 4 year to fix this???? NOTHING!!!!!

Stillman is a "hands-off" owner. Checketts was a "bottom line" owner. The common thread between both - Doug Armstrong. So were does the real problem lie in development of prospects? Most folks blame it on a GM. What's the excuse for Armstrong to not be blamed now with his hands involved over multiple owners, multiple AHL teams, and what looks like a massive failure to actually develop prospects in his 10 years as GM???