offseason so far

[cardsfan04]

Where is that 3.9 number coming from?

Funny you didn't find it. I literally searched it out in like ten seconds. Since I'm the one to quote it:

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/blues

Looks like the difference between NHL Numbers and Cap Friendly is that NHL Numbers is counting Lindbohm and Ferraro while Cap Friendly is not. I assume two-way contracts hit the cap on a prorated basis dependent upon how many days (or maybe games?) the player is in the NHL, but I'm not sure on that.

[theohall]

What counts against the cap from Jun 30 to the end of training camp:

Cap can be exceeded by 10% during this timeframe.

DURING THE OFFSEASON
In the offseason, the following players count:
1. All players on 1-way contracts, regardless of where (or if) they were playing the previous year.
2. All players on 2-way contracts, in proportion to the number of days spent on an NHL roster the previous season.
3. All RFA’s who have been extended a qualifying offer (while the offer is valid), with 1-way QO’s counting in full and 2-way QO’s counting as described in #2.
4. All RFA’s signed to an offer sheet (such players count against the team extending the offer sheet while it is still valid).
5. All ordinary buyouts [those buyouts not executed immediately after the ratification of the current CBA].

So those 2-way contracts count. Key note - it's # of day spent on an NHL roster, not games played.

With Ferraro having played in 68 games last season, his contract his going to count at full value.

Lindbohm's on the other hand, should be listed at about a 1/4 of it's value for off-season cap purposes, but full value has to be considered were he to make the team over someone else (which right now is doubtful).

I'll stick with NHLNumbers which counts them over the sites which don't.

[theohall]

NHL Blues article about turning the page

They mention Jordan Schmaltz as being on the cusp. He might be on the cusp but with Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Parayko, and Bortuzzo all being right defenseman, Schmaltz is a long shot to make the team. If Shattenkirk ever gets traded, he might be a 7th defenseman, but that depends on what's happening with the left side of the defense where Lindbohm is the clear "4th" defenseman - behind Bouwmeester, Edmundson, and Gunnarson. Schmaltz should make the team in the 2017-18 season, but he will still be behind Pietrangelo and Parayko for ice time.

[WaukeeBlues]

NHL Blues article about turning the page

They mention Jordan Schmaltz as being on the cusp. He might be on the cusp but with Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Parayko, and Bortuzzo all being right defenseman, Schmaltz is a long shot to make the team. If Shattenkirk ever gets traded, he might be a 7th defenseman, but that depends on what's happening with the left side of the defense where Lindbohm is the clear "4th" defenseman - behind Bouwmeester, Edmundson, and Gunnarson. Schmaltz should make the team in the 2017-18 season, but he will still be behind Pietrangelo and Parayko for ice time.

Shattenkirk is going to be dealt sooner or later just a matter of when. It's not a terrible thing for Schmaltz to spend another 3/4 of a season (minimum) in the AHL. IMO. If he's REALLY that good in camp and preseason then he'll get a spot. But I don't think the kid is going to outplay any of those top 3 we have right now on the right side.

[glen a richter]

Schmaltz, Vannelli and Dunn will do battle in camp but all 3 probably play the season in Chicago unless one of them goes all Parayko in September. Worse things could happen, they get experience and guidance under Berube. Schmaltz, if I recall, had a great offensive season but was also minus a dozen or so.

[theohall]

NHL Blues article about turning the page

They mention Jordan Schmaltz as being on the cusp. He might be on the cusp but with Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Parayko, and Bortuzzo all being right defenseman, Schmaltz is a long shot to make the team. If Shattenkirk ever gets traded, he might be a 7th defenseman, but that depends on what's happening with the left side of the defense where Lindbohm is the clear "4th" defenseman - behind Bouwmeester, Edmundson, and Gunnarson. Schmaltz should make the team in the 2017-18 season, but he will still be behind Pietrangelo and Parayko for ice time.

Shattenkirk is going to be dealt sooner or later just a matter of when. It's not a terrible thing for Schmaltz to spend another 3/4 of a season (minimum) in the AHL. IMO. If he's REALLY that good in camp and preseason then he'll get a spot. But I don't think the kid is going to outplay any of those top 3 we have right now on the right side.

And even then a coaching staff of Hitchcock, Yeo, and Wilson is going to favor playing the veteran Bortuzzo in a 3rd RD position over a rookie.

[ecbm]

NHL Blues article about turning the page

They mention Jordan Schmaltz as being on the cusp. He might be on the cusp but with Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Parayko, and Bortuzzo all being right defenseman, Schmaltz is a long shot to make the team. If Shattenkirk ever gets traded, he might be a 7th defenseman, but that depends on what's happening with the left side of the defense where Lindbohm is the clear "4th" defenseman - behind Bouwmeester, Edmundson, and Gunnarson. Schmaltz should make the team in the 2017-18 season, but he will still be behind Pietrangelo and Parayko for ice time.

Shattenkirk is going to be dealt sooner or later just a matter of when. It's not a terrible thing for Schmaltz to spend another 3/4 of a season (minimum) in the AHL. IMO. If he's REALLY that good in camp and preseason then he'll get a spot. But I don't think the kid is going to outplay any of those top 3 we have right now on the right side.

And even then a coaching staff of Hitchcock, Yeo, and Wilson is going to favor playing the veteran Bortuzzo in a 3rd RD position over a rookie.

You're probably right, which is fucked up. Bortuzzo does not impress me at all-I have trouble even envisioning him as an everyday 3rd-pairing guy.

[gaijin]

[Frusciante]

NHL Blues article about turning the page

They mention Jordan Schmaltz as being on the cusp. He might be on the cusp but with Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Parayko, and Bortuzzo all being right defenseman, Schmaltz is a long shot to make the team. If Shattenkirk ever gets traded, he might be a 7th defenseman, but that depends on what's happening with the left side of the defense where Lindbohm is the clear "4th" defenseman - behind Bouwmeester, Edmundson, and Gunnarson. Schmaltz should make the team in the 2017-18 season, but he will still be behind Pietrangelo and Parayko for ice time.

Shattenkirk is going to be dealt sooner or later just a matter of when. It's not a terrible thing for Schmaltz to spend another 3/4 of a season (minimum) in the AHL. IMO. If he's REALLY that good in camp and preseason then he'll get a spot. But I don't think the kid is going to outplay any of those top 3 we have right now on the right side.

And even then a coaching staff of Hitchcock, Yeo, and Wilson is going to favor playing the veteran Bortuzzo in a 3rd RD position over a rookie.

You're probably right, which is fucked up. Bortuzzo does not impress me at all-I have trouble even envisioning him as an everyday 3rd-pairing guy.

I'd play him every game though, if it meant we could fetch a Taylor Hall-caliber guy for Shatty. Our problem is still offense and we would still have a good defensive corps if we traded Shatty. He's THE guy to trade if Army just would lower his asking price a tad.

[theohall]

I'd play him every game though, if it meant we could fetch a Taylor Hall-caliber guy for Shatty. Our problem is still offense and we would still have a good defensive corps if we traded Shatty. He's THE guy to trade if Army just would lower his asking price a tad.

So Army should lower the asking price...

Have you read the hew and cry for Army not getting enough for Elliott?? Elliott is slated to be a UFA after this season, the same as Shattenkirk. He was one of the best regular season and playoff goalies last year. He has been one of the best goalies in the league his entire time with St Louis. Yet all Army got was draft picks - which is low for a top-end goalie, especially trading within conference. You know who could have used Elliott and relieved cap space - the Rangers by acquiring Elliott and trading Lundqvist. But that apparently never occurred to our GM who would rather improve an in-conference foe for peanuts. Heck, imagine a Shattenkirk/Elliott package deal to the Rangers for whomever.

Were Army to do something similar and get less than he is currently asking for Shattenkirk, the hew and cry would turn into hacks and screams.

[glen a richter]

I'd play him every game though, if it meant we could fetch a Taylor Hall-caliber guy for Shatty. Our problem is still offense and we would still have a good defensive corps if we traded Shatty. He's THE guy to trade if Army just would lower his asking price a tad.

So Army should lower the asking price...

Have you read the hew and cry for Army not getting enough for Elliott?? Elliott is slated to be a UFA after this season, the same as Shattenkirk. He was one of the best regular season and playoff goalies last year. He has been one of the best goalies in the league his entire time with St Louis. Yet all Army got was draft picks - which is low for a top-end goalie, especially trading within conference. You know who could have used Elliott and relieved cap space - the Rangers by acquiring Elliott and trading Lundqvist. But that apparently never occurred to our GM who would rather improve an in-conference foe for peanuts. Heck, imagine a Shattenkirk/Elliott package deal to the Rangers for whomever.

Were Army to do something similar and get less than he is currently asking for Shattenkirk, the hew and cry would turn into hacks and screams.

The Rangers aren't trading Lundqvist, are you serious? There'd be (Franking) riots.

[theohall]

I'd play him every game though, if it meant we could fetch a Taylor Hall-caliber guy for Shatty. Our problem is still offense and we would still have a good defensive corps if we traded Shatty. He's THE guy to trade if Army just would lower his asking price a tad.

So Army should lower the asking price...

Have you read the hew and cry for Army not getting enough for Elliott?? Elliott is slated to be a UFA after this season, the same as Shattenkirk. He was one of the best regular season and playoff goalies last year. He has been one of the best goalies in the league his entire time with St Louis. Yet all Army got was draft picks - which is low for a top-end goalie, especially trading within conference. You know who could have used Elliott and relieved cap space - the Rangers by acquiring Elliott and trading Lundqvist. But that apparently never occurred to our GM who would rather improve an in-conference foe for peanuts. Heck, imagine a Shattenkirk/Elliott package deal to the Rangers for whomever.

Were Army to do something similar and get less than he is currently asking for Shattenkirk, the hew and cry would turn into hacks and screams.

The Rangers aren't trading Lundqvist, are you serious? There'd be (Franking) riots.

Just like they aren't trading Kreider or Stepan. We are all just BSing anyway.

[Frusciante]

I'd play him every game though, if it meant we could fetch a Taylor Hall-caliber guy for Shatty. Our problem is still offense and we would still have a good defensive corps if we traded Shatty. He's THE guy to trade if Army just would lower his asking price a tad.

So Army should lower the asking price...

Have you read the hew and cry for Army not getting enough for Elliott?? Elliott is slated to be a UFA after this season, the same as Shattenkirk. He was one of the best regular season and playoff goalies last year. He has been one of the best goalies in the league his entire time with St Louis. Yet all Army got was draft picks - which is low for a top-end goalie, especially trading within conference. You know who could have used Elliott and relieved cap space - the Rangers by acquiring Elliott and trading Lundqvist. But that apparently never occurred to our GM who would rather improve an in-conference foe for peanuts. Heck, imagine a Shattenkirk/Elliott package deal to the Rangers for whomever.

Were Army to do something similar and get less than he is currently asking for Shattenkirk, the hew and cry would turn into hacks and screams.

Frankly, I don't mind if the fans are upset with the trade or not. As long as it addresses our problems and makes us a better team. So far Army has asked for Larkin or Larkin-like players for Shatty and there's a reason teams don't bite. Shatty is a power play specialist with decent offensive upside, but in his own zone he's mediocre at best. He's not a franchise player but Army is asking for the next big thing when trying to trade him. They know they're not going to be able to keep him for next season so just make sure you get some value for him now. A top 6/9 forward with some length to his contract and possibility of contributing for a few years. I'm sure we'll have some takers if Army just would lower his price A BIT. I'm not saying give him away, just don't pass up the chance of getting something for him.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's very expendable right now. You rarely get the chance of trading for someone and not feel like you're creating a hole somewhere else. This time, we have a guy we NEED to trade and he's got enough value that we'll get something good in return. Pull the trigger.

[theohall]

So far Army has asked for Larkin or Larkin-like players for Shatty and there's a reason teams don't bite. Shatty is a power play specialist with decent offensive upside, but in his own zone he's mediocre at best. He's not a franchise player but Army is asking for the next big thing when trying to trade him. They know they're not going to be able to keep him for next season so just make sure you get some value for him now. A top 6/9 forward with some length to his contract and possibility of contributing for a few years. I'm sure we'll have some takers if Army just would lower his price A BIT. I'm not saying give him away, just don't pass up the chance of getting something for him.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's very expendable right now. You rarely get the chance of trading for someone and not feel like you're creating a hole somewhere else. This time, we have a guy we NEED to trade and he's got enough value that we'll get something good in return. Pull the trigger.

My thinking is Army is putting the asking price up there in order to get what he should, which is the 6/9 forward with contract like you mentioned, or actually getting someone to overpay later when some team has a desperate need or feels an offensive d-man will be the piece to put them over the top at the trade deadline. I don't see Shattenkirk being moved before then, unless a team has an injury and decides to ask for him then. The asking for Larkin thing is completely ludicrous. But it does show the Blues would prefer a left-handed shooter and would likely want a lefty in the trade - given the number of right-handed shooters already on the team.

[Toasted Oates]

Andy Strickland tweeted the Larkin rumor is untrue. Are we just ignoring that or....?

Also,
Steen, Tarasenko, Schwartz, Stastny, Fabbri, Perron, Berglund, Sobotka, Upshall, Jaskin....all those guys are left handed.

As long as the guy can play RW or C, or if they think Fabbri can play RW or C, it's all good.

[theohall]

Andy Strickland tweeted the Larkin rumor is untrue. Are we just ignoring that or....?

Also,
Steen, Tarasenko, Schwartz, Stastny, Fabbri, Perron, Berglund, Sobotka, Upshall, Jaskin....all those guys are left handed.

As long as the guy can play RW or C, or if they think Fabbri can play RW or C, it's all good.

Perron is a righty who plays on his off-wing just like Tarasenko is a lefty who plays on his off-wing.

Berglund sucks and the Blues should be trying to get someone better, unless he can play an entire season the way he did last season. Not betting on that happening. Also UFA after this season.

Jaskin is a 4th liner forced into a 3rd line roll, they should be trying to get someone better. And they almost always play him on his off-wing.

Statsny is a C who shouldn't play LW.

Sobotka is a C who shouldn't play LW. UFA after this season

Upshall is a 4th liner. Worth what they are paying him for his versatility in that depth role, but that's not a reason to ignore trying to find someone better. UFA after this season.

Fabbri should play at C. The problem is the coaching staff refusing to use a small player at C which is why they keep drafting big centers as opposed to playing a guy at a position he played his entire life until making it to the NHL.

Which leaves Steen and Schwartz. Steen is a 32 year old UFA next season. Do they sign him for a veteran contract and hope he takes some kind of discount due to age, or get someone younger and at least equivalent under contract.

Then go look at the organization after that and find the natural LWs. Please don't even mention Magnus "couldn't score through a 10'x10' open barn door" Paajarvi, much less pass to anyone with any effectiveness. What does it say when someone with that much lack of skill is actually on the NHL roster as a LW, yet regularly gets opportunities to play on top lines from this coaching staff?

There is a lack of natural LW skilled depth in the organization. Just like the Blues still have an issue with too many NHL ready right side defenseman and not enough NHL ready left side defenseman beyond Lindbohm, unless some of those Wolves are actually ready to move up.

Plus given the number of those who are 2017 UFAs, shouldn't the Blues be looking to replace them with guys already under contract through a smart trade vice over-paying in the 2017 UFA market? Next year's LW UFA market - only 17 guys under 30 with only a few good ones, most of whom are likely to re-sign with their current teams some time this season. There are plenty of over 30 players which means the Blues should be extending Steen if they can when one looks at the lack of quality next season's potential LW market. Or trade for someone younger already under contract with an expendable quality asset to improve a position which will need it next season and could use improved depth this season to make more than 2 lines a real offensive threat.

As to the Larkin rumor - the Detroit Free Press Wings beat reporter is saying one thing, and she has her Red Wings sources when it was called "first chatter", while Strickland has his Blues sources. It's a matter of which reporter and their sources do you believe? That "first chatter" thing to me is Armstrong making a ridiculous offer on purpose, vice Strickland's claim which just says it's untrue. Was it untrue as a serious offer, surely. Did it never, ever happen? Whom do you believe?

[Toasted Oates]

I slipped on Perron but I realize where they play/should play. That's not what you originally said, though. You insinuated the team had enough righties (as in hockey players that shoot right handed) on the current roster. Lack of organizational depth @ left handed LW? OK, then. You cleared up what you meant.

Re: Strickland: I don't "believe" anyone in particular. There just seems to be little acknowledgment that he put it out there. The Larkin rumor was awesome in that it got Wang fans very fired up. Worth it.

[cardsfan04]

At this point, I'd rather Army keep his asking price high. Asking price and actual selling price don't have to be the same thing. Draft is over. Free agency is essentially over. If a pick is part of the deal, we're almost a year away, so there's no hurry. Teams may know they have a hole, but they're going to be willing to pay more when they have an injury or they have less time to fill the hole. I'll be upset if we don't get good value for him, but I think Army is doing the right thing in waiting at this point. I'm surprised a deal didn't happen at the draft though.

[WaukeeBlues]

At this point, I'd rather Army keep his asking price high. Asking price and actual selling price don't have to be the same thing. Draft is over. Free agency is essentially over. If a pick is part of the deal, we're almost a year away, so there's no hurry. Teams may know they have a hole, but they're going to be willing to pay more when they have an injury or they have less time to fill the hole. I'll be upset if we don't get good value for him, but I think Army is doing the right thing in waiting at this point. I'm surprised a deal didn't happen at the draft though.

Yea, I agree. I don't think he'll be moved this offseason. When the season starts and teams get injuries (like you said) or we make it all the way to the deadline (the other time of year other than July 1 where GM's "lose their minds" and drastically overpay for assets), I agree if Shatty hasn't been dealt yet you start the season with him and let a good/great offer come through.

The only potential negative is if Armstrong waits to the last minute and screws himself in holding out for TOO much and then the trade deadline passes and he walks for free this next offseason. Unless we strategically keep him and win a cup in which case I won't be mad about it.

[JCShutout]

Heard on 101espn this morning that Steen is putting out feelers about resigning with the Blues, and that the Note might be interested in keeping him depending on price and term obviously.