Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by gaijin »

He never struck me as the type who would do something like this on purpose. An indefinite suspension seems kind of harsh.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/flames-wid ... --nhl.html
NEW YORK (AP) -- Calgary Flames defenseman Dennis Wideman has been suspended indefinitely pending a hearing for checking and knocking down linesman Don Henderson on Wednesday night.

Wideman will have a hearing Tuesday with the NHL's department of hockey operations.

During the second period of the Flames' game against Nashville, Wideman got up after being hit and struck Henderson on the way to the bench. Wideman said he was in pain and was just trying to get off the ice, adding that he couldn't avoid Henderson.

Wideman apologized to Henderson after the incident.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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Watching the replay on NHL Tonight now.

There's no way his "I didn't see him" stands up. The video appears to show him looking right at him and then cross checking him in the back.

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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by WaukeeBlues »

Most telling out of anything is that Wideman doesn't even turn around after he hits him.

If that were truly an accident his immediate reaction would be "oh sh*t" and he would do SOMETHING to show he didn't mean to do that.

Nope. He doesn't even turn around to look. I know professional athletes have egos and all that but no way. He "cleverly" did it to make it look like an accident but I don't see "oops sorry" anywhere on there.

The fact that Wideman is already apologizing instead of being defiant also speaks volumes.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by cprice12 »

Here is what happened...

It's obvious he was woozy from the hit...his head looks to hit the glass on the check near the corner. So keeping that in mind, even though he was looking in the official's general direction, he might not have noticed him due to his wooziness/dizziness...he may have had tunnel vision, or his eyes simply could have been looking down, or he could have been staring and focusing hard on the bench door because when you suffer a hit to the head and you are dizzy, you tend to focus on one point real hard to try and keep your balance. He just wanted to get off the ice, that was his main focus.

Here is a good look at the hit:


Two things to look for in the video that make me believe this was not intentional or malicious...

1) The official is standing still at the bench when Wideman starts towards the bench. You can see the official only starts skating backwards just as he comes into frame in the video. It's quite likely Wideman simply didn't see him start to skate backwards.

2) Look at Wideman's skates right before he hits the official. His actions, to me, clearly give the impression that he didn't see him until the last second as he sharply tries to stop/adjust his path and get out of the way while getting his hands up to protect himself so he didn't get hurt worse, because the last thing Wideman wants at this point is to get hit again, as he his already hurt and woozy.

Of course, at first glance, it seems easy to make the argument the other way... that Wideman was pissed/frustrated from the hit that hurt him, he makes a slow straight line to the bench and knocked the ref down because he was in his way and just didn't want him to run into him...and he did so out of frustration and anger. But to be honest, this just seems so out of character for him and in my opinion, based on his history and also really looking at the video a number of times, isn't what happened.

Just because his head seems to be looking in the general direction of where the ref is coming from isn't a smoking gun by any means. I can have my head looking one direction and focused on something else in that same direction and not see something in my field of view because I'm focusing so hard on that other thing.

Personally, I think anyone who thinks Wideman did this on purpose, simply aren't really looking closely at the video at all. They just see him knock a ref down and aren't trying to figure out why, they just see it and assume it's on purpose and cry for a suspension. When I see something like this, I wonder why and how it happened...so I try to figure it out...because him simply taking a shot out of the blue at an official just doesn't make any sense. And when you look at the video and try to figure out why he did that, I think it's quite easy to see that it likely wasn't on purpose or malicious.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by abc789987 »

I'd like to see a better video from the front so we could see his face when he hits the linesman... I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't see... On one hand his head was up and it looks like he was looking at him and then on the other he did just get rocked and might not have been thinking clearly... Who knows...

*edit. yeah what Curt says above
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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WaukeeBlues wrote:Most telling out of anything is that Wideman doesn't even turn around after he hits him.

If that were truly an accident his immediate reaction would be "oh sh*t" and he would do SOMETHING to show he didn't mean to do that.

Nope. He doesn't even turn around to look. I know professional athletes have egos and all that but no way. He "cleverly" did it to make it look like an accident but I don't see "oops sorry" anywhere on there.

The fact that Wideman is already apologizing instead of being defiant also speaks volumes.
To me, the fact that he doesn't even seem to care about the official after the hit is just that much more telling how foggy and out of it he was. It was obvious he wanted to get to the bench and that was all he was focused on. His head did hit the glass in the corner.

And when he apologized, he did defend himself... he said he didn't see him, couldn't avoid the hit, and had nowhere to go. Which just backs up the story of him not noticing him until the last second. If you watch Wideman's skates, it's obvious to me that he doesn't see him until the last second. If he saw him the whole time and had malicious intent, he wouldn't have tried to stop quick and adjust to avoid a hit...he would have just plowed him over, which he didn't do in my opinion.

And I think the whole idea that he tried to make it look like an accident...why would he even do that? Maybe if there was some evidence of bad blood between the two or something that happened earlier in the game...but nothing like that happened...that we know of, of course.

Again, him maliciously plowing over the linesman because he was in his way just doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by abc789987 »

I find it hard to believe that anyone would be that stupid to do this on purpose.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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abc789987 wrote:I find it hard to believe that anyone would be that stupid to do this on purpose.
He is suspended indefinitely until the hearing on Tuesday. So we'll see what the league decides. I don't think he should be suspended...but I think he might get something small, like a couple games, just so the league can give the impression they are trying to protect the officials.

Here is what Wideman said after the game:
"I took a pretty good hit down in the corner and had some pretty good pain in my shoulder and neck," Wideman said. "I was just trying to get off the ice and kind of keeled over. At the last second, I looked up and saw [Henderson] and couldn't avoid it. I went up to Donnie and apologized to him on the ice.

"I didn't see him. I didn't know where to go and how to get out of the way. I've been around for a few years, and I think I've treated every official with the utmost respect, and I would never intentionally try to hit a linesman or a ref. It was completely unintentional, and I already apologized to him."
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by cardsfan04 »

I've been on the fence about this. But, I think I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, largely because of what Curt pointed out about his feet. He didn't go through him. He went to him and tried to change direction.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by Kerfuffle »

NHL rules state the suspension will be at least 20 games for intentionally trying to injure an on-ice official. So I'm expecting 20 out of this. The video doesn't lie folks - this was intentional.

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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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Kerfuffle wrote:NHL rules state the suspension will be at least 20 games for intentionally trying to injure an on-ice official. So I'm expecting 20 out of this. The video doesn't lie folks - this was intentional.
:lol:
Going to have to disagree with you on the intent to injure...but I agree with you that the video doesn't lie. You just have to really watch it to understand what happened.

But let's pretend what you say is true...that Wideman did attempt to injure the official.

Care to explain why you feel he might want to do something that stupid for no reason?
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by Kerfuffle »

cprice12 wrote: Care to explain why you feel he might want to do something that stupid for no reason?
I don't know the history of the player with that referee - or what words were exchanged between the two in that game or another. I think you're trying to find a way to justify his actions but this one is a slam dunk when one sees the video. I'd give him 20.

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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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Kerfuffle wrote:
cprice12 wrote: Care to explain why you feel he might want to do something that stupid for no reason?
I don't know the history of the player with that referee - or what words were exchanged between the two in that game or another.
So it would be safe to assume, based on the evidence we have, that there is no "history" between them and no harsh words were exchanged.
That would be the logical conclusion at this time.
To assume otherwise would be disingenuous.
Kerfuffle wrote:I think you're trying to find a way to justify his actions but this one is a slam dunk when one sees the video. I'd give him 20.
I'm not trying to find a way to justify anything. I have no horse in this race.
I'm just calling them as I see them.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by cardsfan04 »

What he does with his feet as he gets close to the linesman is the best indicator as to his intent I think. He was on him and he tried to get his feet out of the way. That looks consistent with what he said, that he didn't see him until the last second.

Either way, I don't think this is a slam dunk against him. The range in my mind is "looks like an accident" to "maybe it wasn't an accident." I don't think anybody can look at it and say a player with no history of this sort of thing was clearly trying to injure an official.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

Post by ecbm »

I can believe he had his bell rung and was woozy (probably the "indefinite" part of the suspension is to consider whether tests show he has a concussion) but still...how is this the action of a guy who's woozy? He doesn't fall over, or skate aimlessly, or try to get onto the wrong bench or anything loopy but rather...he hits a ref? I'd probably throw the book at him too. The only thing that gives me pause is that it was so un-subtle. Look how high his hands get.

I'd definitely advise him to change his story and say that the whole "I had my head down" line was a product or being out of it. His head is up the whole time he approaches the bench so that doesn't work as a defense. Probably I could believe it if he said: I wanted to bump him so he'd get out of my way as I went to the bench but he was skating backward and I was dizzy so I ran into him harder than I intended.

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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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WaukeeBlues wrote:Most telling out of anything is that Wideman doesn't even turn around after he hits him.
This is important too. Look at the Nashville bench-they're popping off, yelling and pointing. If Wideman was so concussed that he noticed none of that then the Flames should get the book thrown at them for violating concussion protocol-not that I believe that's what happened.

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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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ecbm wrote:I can believe he had his bell rung and was woozy (probably the "indefinite" part of the suspension is to consider whether tests show he has a concussion) but still...how is this the action of a guy who's woozy? He doesn't fall over, or skate aimlessly, or try to get onto the wrong bench or anything loopy but rather...he hits a ref? I'd probably throw the book at him too. The only thing that gives me pause is that it was so un-subtle. Look how high his hands get.

I'd definitely advise him to change his story and say that the whole "I had my head down" line was a product or being out of it. His head is up the whole time he approaches the bench so that doesn't work as a defense. Probably I could believe it if he said: I wanted to bump him so he'd get out of my way as I went to the bench but he was skating backward and I was dizzy so I ran into him harder than I intended.
No, his head WAS down at first.
And when he does raise his head up, we can't see his eyes, he could be looking down or wherever. So that's up for debate.
But like I said, based on his reaction when he is about to collide with the official, it obvious to me that he was suprised to see him there and got his hands and stick up to protect himself as he tried to stop and sidestep him.
If he just wanted to maliciously run over the official, he wouldn't have reacted the way he did when he made contact.
I don't know if you have ever played hockey before, but I imagine myself in that situation and that's just how I feel I would have reacted as well. The hands and stick come up to protect yourself and you push off, that's a typical reaction of a player to a collision that isn't seen until the last second...which I have had happen more times than I care to count.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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ecbm wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:Most telling out of anything is that Wideman doesn't even turn around after he hits him.
This is important too. Look at the Nashville bench-they're popping off, yelling and pointing. If Wideman was so concussed that he noticed none of that then the Flames should get the book thrown at them for violating concussion protocol-not that I believe that's what happened.
Wideman is already past the Nashville bench when a few players stand up and he's already on his bench with his head down when their whole bench is up.
If he didn't notice the official in front of him, then he isn't going to notice some players on the bench behind him. Nor does he probably care, as he said he was in some pretty severe pain in his neck and shoulders.

And I'm not even saying he has a concussion. You can be knocked woozy and not have a concussion.
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Re: Dennis Wideman Suspended Indefinitely

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This whole incident reminds me of the 2000 World Series in which Roger Clemens picked up the broken bat from Mike Piazza and threw it at him. And Clemen's response was that it was an accident and he was just trying to get it out of the way. But video clearly showed him chucking that thing at Piazza in a very deliberate and angry manner. Same thing with Wideman - he can say this and that and it was unintentional and he bumped the ref getting off the ice but when you watch the replay he clearly cross checks the ref from behind. That's intentional.

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