Upshall is the new Gomez

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Upshall is the new Gomez

Post by gaijin »

Noticing a trend here. They say "Veteran XXXX invited to training camp," and what I hear is, "We don't think our young guys are ready."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/blues-invi ... --nhl.html
ST. LOUIS (AP) -- The St. Louis Blues have invited forward Scottie Upshall to training camp for a tryout.

The 31-year-old Upshall had eight goals and seven assists in 63 games with the Panthers last season.

Upshall is a 12-year veteran with previous stints in Columbus, Phoenix, Philadelphia and Nashville. He was the sixth overall pick in 2002 by the Predators and has 234 points in 553 career games.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

Post by cprice12 »

gaijin wrote:Noticing a trend here. They say "Veteran XXXX invited to training camp," and what I hear is, "We don't think our young guys are ready."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/blues-invi ... --nhl.html
ST. LOUIS (AP) -- The St. Louis Blues have invited forward Scottie Upshall to training camp for a tryout.

The 31-year-old Upshall had eight goals and seven assists in 63 games with the Panthers last season.

Upshall is a 12-year veteran with previous stints in Columbus, Phoenix, Philadelphia and Nashville. He was the sixth overall pick in 2002 by the Predators and has 234 points in 553 career games.
I don't see it that way at all.
I see it as an insurance policy if it is determined that Fabbri and Co. aren't ready. It's not a great insurance policy...but it's better than not inviting anyone.

The Blues would be pretty irresponsible if they didn't do this.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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gaijin wrote:Noticing a trend here. They say "Veteran XXXX invited to training camp," and what I hear is, "We don't think our young guys are ready."
I don't think that's going to be the case, but with Lehtera off to a late start and Berglund out till at least January and there is always potential for another person to get injured too.

Signing one of these guys may give us that extra replacement if the young guys are not ready, its just a smart thing to do. Upshall will get a contract out of it, just probably not with the Blues to me he is a 4th line guy and we don't need 4th line depth. Stempniak would have been my choice for a winger over Upshall for a depth/3rd line winger and cheap. Gomez better be cheap if we do sign him.

Hitch said Fabbri making the team has nothing to do with the Blues injury situation, its more about if he is ready to be here. So if this is an opportunity to for anyone its Rattie, Barbashev, and Paajarvi to see if they can hold a spot. Really wanting to see Barbashev he reminds me of Sobotka.

But I'm not worried about Vets taking jobs from young guys out of camp.

Remember Reaves hand injury........invite Bissonnette.......Reaves was healthy no contract for Bissonnette.

Sign Wade Redden........trade him after 23 games

Pietrangelo contract holdout........invite Ryan Whitney.....don't sign Ryan Whitney

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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

Post by dmiles2186 »

I think it also breeds competition. You get a vet coming in who knows what it takes to play in the NHL, that just makes the young guys trying to crack the roster raise their game. Simple as that. I don't see it as a negative thing at all. Just because they're in camp doesn't mean they make the team (see: Jason Arnott from a few years back).
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

Post by ecbm »

gaijin wrote:Noticing a trend here. They say "Veteran XXXX invited to training camp," and what I hear is, "We don't think our young guys are ready."
What I hear is "Hitchcock is still coaching this team."

I do, however, agree that these things don't mean anything until a contract is signed. Even then if they're signed for peanuts so there's no pressure from the front office to play them, also fine. I just don't want to see any dumbass Ott-esque contracts. Make no mistake: Ott is played so much to justify his salary. If he were making $500K he'd sit in the press box a whole lot more, even with Hitch in charge.

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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

Post by glen a richter »

I think Barbashev will contribute a lot more offense than Sobotka ever did... Just not this year. I think Hitch will definitely play Jaskin regularly, Rattie probably and Fabbri maybe. Barbashev will be getting ahl time. Too many kids at once, Hitch's head would explode.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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Forgot Scottie Upshall was a 6th overall pick. Dang. Nashville sure didn't get the mileage out of that one that they were expecting.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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cprice12 wrote:
gaijin wrote:Noticing a trend here. They say "Veteran XXXX invited to training camp," and what I hear is, "We don't think our young guys are ready."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/blues-invi ... --nhl.html
I don't see it that way at all.
I see it as an insurance policy if it is determined that Fabbri and Co. aren't ready. It's not a great insurance policy...but it's better than not inviting anyone.

The Blues would be pretty irresponsible if they didn't do this.
I sure hope you're right, but I'm starting to get a very Keenan-y feel about Hitchcock all of a sudden.

Granted this article is about Gomez, but it was published before the Upshaw invite so I think he can be safely added to the "other outside veteran" list.

http://archauthority.com/2015/08/31/st- ... ck-roster/
Blues coach Ken Hitchcock painted a different picture of the situation during a Monday interview with 101 ESPN’s Bernie Miklasz, however. While the thought by many has been that guys from within the system, such as Ty Rattie, Magnus Paajarvi, and Robby Fabbri, would get the first crack at taking Berglund’s spot in the lineup, Hitchcock seemed to indicate that Gomez, as well as a few other outside veterans such as Jordan Caron, would have the best opportunity, saying, “We brought in three or four NHL players–who are good NHL players–who can see if they can grab that spot, and then we’ll give a real go to guys we think have earned the right: guys like (Ty) Rattie, and (Patrick) Cannone, and Robby Fabbri and that.”

Hitchcock was extremely complimentary of Gomez, saying, “The way he played last year, he played so well. He looked like he was five years ago, he was fast, he was great on the power play…transported the puck up the ice, he was a really good player for them last year.” Rather than really having to play his way on the team, it seems that Gomez will be on the 23-man roster as long as he checks out well during training camp practices and preseason games. Of Gomez’s path to the opening night roster, Hitchcock said, “If he comes in and plays like he did last year, there’s no doubt he makes the team. He’s a good player…We’re gonna give him a real go here, we’re gonna play him with good players and see where he gets to.”
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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evil roy wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
gaijin wrote:Noticing a trend here. They say "Veteran XXXX invited to training camp," and what I hear is, "We don't think our young guys are ready."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/blues-invi ... --nhl.html
I don't see it that way at all.
I see it as an insurance policy if it is determined that Fabbri and Co. aren't ready. It's not a great insurance policy...but it's better than not inviting anyone.

The Blues would be pretty irresponsible if they didn't do this.
I sure hope you're right, but I'm starting to get a very Keenan-y feel about Hitchcock all of a sudden.

Granted this article is about Gomez, but it was published before the Upshaw invite so I think he can be safely added to the "other outside veteran" list.

http://archauthority.com/2015/08/31/st- ... ck-roster/
Blues coach Ken Hitchcock painted a different picture of the situation during a Monday interview with 101 ESPN’s Bernie Miklasz, however. While the thought by many has been that guys from within the system, such as Ty Rattie, Magnus Paajarvi, and Robby Fabbri, would get the first crack at taking Berglund’s spot in the lineup, Hitchcock seemed to indicate that Gomez, as well as a few other outside veterans such as Jordan Caron, would have the best opportunity, saying, “We brought in three or four NHL players–who are good NHL players–who can see if they can grab that spot, and then we’ll give a real go to guys we think have earned the right: guys like (Ty) Rattie, and (Patrick) Cannone, and Robby Fabbri and that.”

Hitchcock was extremely complimentary of Gomez, saying, “The way he played last year, he played so well. He looked like he was five years ago, he was fast, he was great on the power play…transported the puck up the ice, he was a really good player for them last year.” Rather than really having to play his way on the team, it seems that Gomez will be on the 23-man roster as long as he checks out well during training camp practices and preseason games. Of Gomez’s path to the opening night roster, Hitchcock said, “If he comes in and plays like he did last year, there’s no doubt he makes the team. He’s a good player…We’re gonna give him a real go here, we’re gonna play him with good players and see where he gets to.”
Gomez did put up decent numbers last year (more points than Berglund in 20 fewer games). So I get where Hitchcock is coming from to some degree there.

But to totally ignore his few prior seasons where he couldn't do much at all is pretty shortsighted IMO.

If Gomez plays well in camp and looks better than anyone else battling for a spot, then sure...put him on the roster and see how he does. But so help me God if Fabbri or Rattie look great in camp but Gomez gets the nod instead...ugh.

I guess you can always release Gomez partway into the season if he's not working out and THEN call up Fabbri, Rattie or Barbeshev...which is the safe way to go about it I guess. But that will also piss off a lot of Blues fans if the kids aren't getting the shot they deserve.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

Post by APOD »

(Patrick) Cannone is not a name I expected to see in the article sometimes I forget that we have other players back in the Wolves other than the 3 or 4 forwards that get talked about a lot lol. Though I think Welsh would be a better body than Cannone imo.

I figured we picked up Jordan Caron to replace Ott or Reaves on the 4th line this year or next.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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APOD wrote:Hitch said Fabbri making the team has nothing to do with the Blues injury situation, its more about if he is ready to be here. So if this is an opportunity to for anyone its Rattie, Barbashev, and Paajarvi to see if they can hold a spot. Really wanting to see Barbashev he reminds me of Sobotka.
Just want to point out Paajarvi made this team last season in camp, because he "worked so hard", over Jaskin. We all saw how that worked out. That complete lack of effort by Paajarvi after camp last season had better be considered this season when making decisions. Veteran over 2nd year player decision which was wrong.

Now with the comments from Hitch on Gomez - Gomez has essentially already made the team, not matter how good the kids are.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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WaukeeBlues wrote:Forgot Scottie Upshall was a 6th overall pick. Dang. Nashville sure didn't get the mileage out of that one that they were expecting.
Had to go back and look at it-the 1st round of the 2002 draft was not a very good one. Nash, Lehtonen, Bouwmeester, OK...then Pitkanen & Ryan Whitney? Steen at #24 probably turns out as the fourth best player and third best non-goalie in the round. Semin went at #13, Hannu Toivonen ( :doh: ) at #29. The second round was better, with the best player-Duncan Keith (just vomited in my mouth a little bit) going at #54 and Stoll, Boychuk, Trevor Daley and Jiri Hudler all in that round. Not the worst year for the Blues to lack a first-rounder...but then they took Shkotov and Troliga with their first two picks. Again, :doh:
Hitchcock wrote:The way he played last year, he played so well. He looked like he was five years ago
I watched a good deal of Devils hockey last season and while Gomez was more effective than he has been in years, this is objectively not true. His legs are gone and he just doesn't play in his own end at all. And again, in today's NHL you can't carry a guy just for PP.

Very disappointed by Hitch's comments.
evil roy wrote:I sure hope you're right, but I'm starting to get a very Keenan-y feel about Hitchcock all of a sudden.
Yeah, me too. As I keep saying though: he and Armstrong really remind me of Fisher & Snead with the Rams. Keenan was arrogant about insisting on his inane approach but at least when he came here he had won a cup the year before, not fifteen years ago-or never, as in the case of Fisher & Snead.
cprice12 wrote:Gomez did put up decent numbers last year (more points than Berglund in 20 fewer games).
Gomez will only approach those numbers if he plays liberally on the PP and is relieved of virtually all defensive responsibility.

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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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ecbm wrote:
evil roy wrote:I sure hope you're right, but I'm starting to get a very Keenan-y feel about Hitchcock all of a sudden.
Yeah, me too. As I keep saying though: he and Armstrong really remind me of Fisher & Snead with the Rams. Keenan was arrogant about insisting on his inane approach but at least when he came here he had won a cup the year before, not fifteen years ago-or never, as in the case of Fisher & Snead.
They must share in the butt sechs or something because I truly don't understand the apparent misguided loyalty that Army has for Hitch.

I would've dumped Hitch after this season. I don't know how many chances you give a guy with a talented roster and three straight bow-outs in the first round. Apparently the answer is "at least one more."

The absolute worst case scenario for me this season is if the Blues lose in the second round in 6 games. They will have then arguably "improved" which gets Hitch another year to waste our roster yet still having fallen well short of our considerable expectations.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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glen a richter wrote:I think Barbashev will contribute a lot more offense than Sobotka ever did... Just not this year. I think Hitch will definitely play Jaskin regularly, Rattie probably and Fabbri maybe. Barbashev will be getting ahl time. Too many kids at once, Hitch's head would explode.
I think Fabbri has got a much better chance at winning a roster spot and a regular position in The Top 9 than does Rattie. I'm betting that Fabbri will win a spot, and that Gomez, Upshall and Rattie fight over the 13th and 14th forward spots.

Rattie will be waiver eligible, so, if he's just on the cusp, he'll get the edge over the veterans, or he'll be traded. Only one of Gomez or Upshall will likely be signed, unless Lehtera has a setback, and is not ready to start the season. Then, Gomez will be signed to centre Line 3.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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I don't get why this is so hard? Play the guys who have the best camp. The end. I get that Gomez has won cups and has had a good career, but that was over 10 years ago. If he still gets it done on the ice, by all means, give him a roster spot, same with Upshall, but I'm not sure I'd do it based on their history. I really think Hitchcock and Co. are smarter than that.

Besides, haven't we tried this before with other guys who've won cups? I don't recall that translating to us ever winning any cups....

That's why, in the end, I believe Hitchcock is mostly just trying to ignite the young guys into stepping up. It's good for them to know they aren't just going to get a spot without a fight. It's also good insurance.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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ViPeRx007 wrote:I don't get why this is so hard? Play the guys who have the best camp. The end. I get that Gomez has won cups and has had a good career, but that was over 10 years ago. If he still gets it done on the ice, by all means, give him a roster spot, same with Upshall, but I'm not sure I'd do it based on their history. I really think Hitchcock and Co. are smarter than that.

Besides, haven't we tried this before with other guys who've won cups? I don't recall that translating to us ever winning any cups....

That's why, in the end, I believe Hitchcock is mostly just trying to ignite the young guys into stepping up. It's good for them to know they aren't just going to get a spot without a fight. It's also good insurance.
Because Hitchcock hasn't always kept the guys who've had the best camp and some guys who are apparently great in camp (Paajarvi) suck in the regular season and have always sucked in the regular season.

That's what isn't hard to see and is frustrating. Even if Rattie/Barbashev/Fabbri actually play better than Gomez, but Gomez plays well, Gomez will get the job for the season given Hitchcock's predilection to play vets over kids.
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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Upshall Signed a 1 year deal 2 way $700,000 NHL $200,000 AHL

I'm guessing Gomez is out
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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It's good to be wrong. ;)
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

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theohall wrote:It's good to be wrong. ;)
I really hope you are http://twitter.com/jprutherford/status/651125747118026752
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Re: Upshall is the new Gomez

Post by Robb_K »

The Blues sent Rattie down, and still only have 13 forwards and 7 defencemen. There's still room for Gomez. I really am praying that they don't sign him. Rattie should be playing, so he can get used to The NHL, and The Blues can see if they want to hang onto him, or trade him. If they want to trade him, and not lose him to waivers at the beginning of next season, they need to let him play on The NHL level to showcase him.
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