Let's Go Blues

Just to attempt to validate my own point, I tried to look at the 4th line production of some other teams. I don't follow them to the extent I follow the Blues, of course, so I was guessing who the 4th liners were based on TOI and the yahoo depth charts so I could be off a little bit, but it seems to me that Nashville, for example, has a 4th liner with 39 points, Anaheim has a productive 4th, and our regular 4th line, adding in Goc's numbers from Pittsburgh, has produced a whopping grand total of 24 points. Fantastic. Something needs to be done to address the production down there because,as is, we have a great offense but it could be so much better on most nights if we had a more productive 4th line.

TSUCookieMonster wrote:

Kerfuffle wrote:The Blues biggest risk here is making a trade you don't need. The universal discussion on the other message boards I'm on as well as NHL articles I've read is that the Blues acquisition of Miller last year when they didn't need a goaltender was a big mistake. You guys are firing on all cylinders now so I don't know why anyone would want to mess with the current chemistry and team makeup.

+1.

I wouldn't get rid of Ott either. It's fun watching him and Reaves on the same line. It's not Otts fault they agreed to the contract they did. His agent did his job. That being said, if it's a salary dump for Tarasenko... do what you have to do, but I'd wait until the off season. Chemistry is good.

Speaking of chemistry: Did Backes and Tarasenko work out their fight at practice or is it still lingering?

My guess is that it was worked out by the time they left the rink that day. I think it likely sounded like a bigger deal in the media than it actually was. I mean, I'm obviously speculating there. But, I just doubt it was actually a big deal.

glen a richter wrote:I don't follow them to the extent I follow the Blues, of course, so I was guessing who the 4th liners were based on TOI and the yahoo depth charts so I could be off a little bit, but it seems to me that Nashville, for example, has a 4th liner with 39 points...Something needs to be done to address the production down there because,as is, we have a great offense but it could be so much better on most nights if we had a more productive 4th line.

Re: NSH's 4th line-I see how you came to that conclusion: Colin Wilson with 39pts has the third most points of any player listed at C on their roster. Thing is, they have NINE players listed at C who have played in 40+ games. That can't be right. Forsberg is listed as a center but has taken 6 faceoffs. I don't follow them but it looks to me like Jarnkrok/Gaustad has been the 4th line center. Nystrom's on one wing, not sure about the other. Their production is more like 40-45. Still better than the Blues though and I agree with your point. If you look at advanced stats, it's even worse. Bringing me to:

drowland wrote:I was completely flabbergasted when they opted to get rid of Cracknell and demoted Porter. Was Cracknell going to be too expensive or something? That line was fun as hell to watch.

Because Hitchcock prefers to play veterans if at all possible. (LA gave Cracknell 1/$1M.) Those moves made no sense analytically or in terms of cap management. Hitch just didn't want a fourth line with a couple young players on it. Hell, he resisted playing Tarasenko as long as he could. It's annoying.

cardsfan04 wrote:My guess is that it was worked out by the time they left the rink that day. I think it likely sounded like a bigger deal in the media than it actually was. I mean, I'm obviously speculating there. But, I just doubt it was actually a big deal.

About half a year ago SI had a feature on PK Subban where he said he had fought teammates in practice 9 times one season. I don't think this was a big deal at all-just a media thang.

glen a richter wrote:I was reading the ESPN trade deadline preview and they mentioned that the Blues currently have 5.9 mil in free cap space. Am I missing something? I thought we were spent to the cap.

ESPN's crap, uninformed hockey coverage strikes again! I have no idea where they got that number. If they had that much, they'd probably have already extended 91. But they don't have that. According to nhlnumbers.com, the Blues have $1.042M in cap space right now-less than all but three clubs. Less than Boston, Chicago or the Rangers. Ouch.

TSUCookieMonster wrote:I wouldn't get rid of Ott either. It's fun watching him and Reaves on the same line. It's not Otts fault they agreed to the contract they did.

It's a luxury the Blues can in no way afford. Besides, didn't you enjoy watching Cracknell? Don't you enjoy watching Porter? They're similarly useful at a fraction of the cost. Which is exactly the issue, because as it stands:

a salary dump for Tarasenko

is going to be needed.

The cap is going up next season too. Of course that doesn't mean the Blues WILL spend more. But still...

cprice12 wrote:The cap is going up next season too. Of course that doesn't mean the Blues WILL spend more. But still...

It's going up? Even with the Canadian dollar going down?

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/02 ... and-leafs/

Jeremy Rutherford of the St. Louis Post Dispatch: Blues Kevin Shattenkirk has started skating but is still “weeks” away from being able to get back into the lineup. The Blues may be interested in adding a defenseman. Potential targets could be Marek Zidlicky, Keith Yandle and Zbynek Michalek. The Blues could also look to add something up front. Among the forwards that are available are Jaromir Jagr and Antoine Vermette.
The Fourth Period: Blues GM Doug Armstrong scouted the Flames-Rangers last night and the Devils-Coyotes on Monday. The Blues have been linked to Leafs Joffrey Lupul.

I saw the Blues have scouts at tonight's Devils game which pretty much confirms they were looking at a Devil in the Coyotes/Devils game. Odds are looking better that the target is Jagr. It really makes the most sense, from a long term financial standpoint, while avoiding shortchanging the NHL roster heading into the playoffs by forcing two kids or too many fourth liners to get regular ice time. I bet Jagr is a Blue sometime this weekend and Berglund (at least) isn't. I also bet that's the big trade for the season and we hear crickets from Armstrong the rest of the year. Probably they're doing some intense scouting to gauge whether he still has any pep in his step at his advanced age.

STLADOGG wrote:http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/02 ... and-leafs/

Jeremy Rutherford of the St. Louis Post Dispatch: Blues Kevin Shattenkirk has started skating but is still “weeks” away from being able to get back into the lineup. The Blues may be interested in adding a defenseman. Potential targets could be Marek Zidlicky, Keith Yandle and Zbynek Michalek. The Blues could also look to add something up front. Among the forwards that are available are Jaromir Jagr and Antoine Vermette.
The Fourth Period: Blues GM Doug Armstrong scouted the Flames-Rangers last night and the Devils-Coyotes on Monday. The Blues have been linked to Leafs Joffrey Lupul.

I like Yandle, and all, but his cap hit is around 5.3 million, so that's not happening. Vermette is relatively cheap (3.5) and his contract is up after this season so, like Jagr, could be had as a rental/salary dump. I didn't know he was in the last year of his contract. His +/- is atrocious, but hey... it's Arizona. Zidlicky is also in the last year of his contract, could come in a package because Jagr+Zidlicky's salary does equal Berglund and Ott's. Cap wash for both teams, NJ gets two guys who can help during the rebuild and we get two guys who can help with playoff experience and leave the team afterwards, with nice cap room. But their combined age is 81 so that's not overly appealing.

STLADOGG wrote:

cprice12 wrote:The cap is going up next season too. Of course that doesn't mean the Blues WILL spend more. But still...

It's going up? Even with the Canadian dollar going down?

It is, but not as much as once thought. I think Buttman said something like $2-3M. In any case, the number cited by ESPN is theoretically for right now and is definitely wrong. Blues can take on $1M in salary if they wanted to before the deadline, not more.

Agree that it looks like they're interested in Jagr. (Getting Zidlicky would certainly make that a more interesting move if you ask me.) It'll be a trip if we get him the same year as Brodeur. An f'in love-in between the Devils and Blues? WTF?

Still don't think there's any way for the Blues to fit any of the D available who will actually improve the club. In hindsight, the best play there might have been trying for Methot if he'd agree to wait until the offseason to sign an extension.

ecbm wrote:

STLADOGG wrote:

cprice12 wrote:The cap is going up next season too. Of course that doesn't mean the Blues WILL spend more. But still...

It's going up? Even with the Canadian dollar going down?

It is, but not as much as once thought. I think Buttman said something like $2-3M. In any case, the number cited by ESPN is theoretically for right now and is definitely wrong. Blues can take on $1M in salary if they wanted to before the deadline, not more.

Agree that it looks like they're interested in Jagr. (Getting Zidlicky would certainly make that a more interesting move if you ask me.) It'll be a trip if we get him the same year as Brodeur. An f'in love-in between the Devils and Blues? WTF?

Still don't think there's any way for the Blues to fit any of the D available who will actually improve the club. In hindsight, the best play there might have been trying for Methot if he'd agree to wait until the offseason to sign an extension.

I'd love to see some substantial salary go the other way in a deal...which is what may have to happen to get anyone that will truly help the club.
I can't wait until the smoke clears on Monday to see where we stand.
The more I hear, the more I think we are going to make a couple moves...and we may see a big name leave the roster in the process.

Some moron in the comment section of an article I was reading suggested Toronto ask for Schwartz in exchange for Lupul.

Aside from the guys we WANT to get rid of, I could see maybe Bouwmeester or Oshie being shipped out to clear some money.

glen a richter wrote:Some moron in the comment section of an article I was reading suggested Toronto ask for Schwartz in exchange for Lupul.

Aside from the guys we WANT to get rid of, I could see maybe Bouwmeester or Oshie being shipped out to clear some money.

Man... I think Oshie is playing the best hockey of his career right now. I think making Oshie part of a salary dump move isn't the way to go.
I'd rather see Petro moved in a blockbuster deal...not so much as a salary dump, but you could probably get a solid D-man, a solid forward and a couple draft picks for Petro.
I'm not saying I think he's worth that much...but I think a team would easily give that for him as they hype around the league seems to be far greater than his actual value to us.

Jagr's off the table, unless he pulls a Mike Piazza and plays a game or two in Miami and then jets.

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I would almost say that Vermette + Yandle seems the next likely scenario, but that's 8.5 mil tied up in those two so you can probably scratch that unless the return package contains a lot of salary... Berglund, Ott and Bouwmeester. Whether Arizona bites on a deal like that is questionable. Recall Cracknell to replace Ott (obviously).

dmiles2186 wrote:Jagr's off the table, unless he pulls a Mike Piazza and plays a game or two in Miami and then jets.

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If he signs with any metropolitan division team this off season, can we petition to name the division after him? I'm surprised Jagr was okay with leaving the division to go to Florida..

Still think it would be foolish to move Petro now-you won't get his true value. If I'm trying to get him now, I'm trying to fleece the Blues for a high upside guy in a bad year. If you did want to move him in a blockbuster, I'd wait for the draft where teams will be thinking long term and negotiations are conditioned less by how players are performing right now.

Now Bouwmeester, could see moving him in a cap move but there's risk. He's not been great but who's the obvious candidate to take his minutes? Cole? Soon-to-be-34-year-old-free-agent Jackman?

Decisions, decisions.

I wouldn't move Pietro right now either. I'm not opposed to moving him in theory, but I wouldn't do it as we enter the home stretch of a season in which we hope to win a Cup. That's an offseason kinda trade. And that doesn't even get into how moving him would likely be weakening an already weak spot.

I think Pietro has played much better of late than he did to start the season too.

cardsfan04 wrote:I wouldn't move Pietro right now either. I'm not opposed to moving him in theory, but I wouldn't do it as we enter the home stretch of a season in which we hope to win a Cup. That's an offseason kinda trade. And that doesn't even get into how moving him would likely be weakening an already weak spot.

I think Pietro has played much better of late than he did to start the season too.

I came here to post the same thing, especially your last point. He had a bad start to the season, no reason to trade him. He's one of the best young defensemen in the game. He's got that reputation and that carries him a bit, but stats-wise in recent seasons, that's proven to be true too. I think his poor start paired with Shattenkirk's amazing season thus far, made Petro look expendable. But I'd much rather have 2 guys under 26-27 with Norris upside instead of 1. I think it's too soon to 'give up' on Petro. Stay the course, let him get this year behind him and see what we've got next year.

Yeah, the argument could me made that if we don't win the Cup this year and the team needs shaken up, maybe he can net you a big 'name' in return. But that's for another day.

dmiles2186 wrote:

cardsfan04 wrote:I wouldn't move Pietro right now either. I'm not opposed to moving him in theory, but I wouldn't do it as we enter the home stretch of a season in which we hope to win a Cup. That's an offseason kinda trade. And that doesn't even get into how moving him would likely be weakening an already weak spot.

I think Pietro has played much better of late than he did to start the season too.

I came here to post the same thing, especially your last point. He had a bad start to the season, no reason to trade him. He's one of the best young defensemen in the game. He's got that reputation and that carries him a bit, but stats-wise in recent seasons, that's proven to be true too. I think his poor start paired with Shattenkirk's amazing season thus far, made Petro look expendable. But I'd much rather have 2 guys under 26-27 with Norris upside instead of 1. I think it's too soon to 'give up' on Petro. Stay the course, let him get this year behind him and see what we've got next year.

Yeah, the argument could me made that if we don't win the Cup this year and the team needs shaken up, maybe he can net you a big 'name' in return. But that's for another day.

It had better be more than "a big name" if trading Pietro. Blues under-sold when moving Pronger. Don't make the same mistake. Anyway, agree with not moving him at all and keeping two potential Norris guys on the team at that age.

Well there you go. Apparently they were scouting the guy who's been out with a concussion for two weeks...