Evander Kane: Yay or Nay?

[dmiles2186]

If you haven't been following the story, Evander Kane and Paul Maurice seem to be having a bit of a rocky relationship up in the 'Peg. It culminated recently when Maurice healthy scratched Kane for a game because he showed up to a team meeting in a track suit instead of a suit suit. Now the rumors are that the union is going to be severed here soon and teams are lining up to see about trading for Kane.

Just from a Blues perspective, do you take a shot at the guy? Young player, 4th overall pick...

NOTE: I'm not saying the Blues have interest or anything like that, nothing has been reported.

[ecbm]

He makes $6M per. It's a nonstarter. Blues can't fit that. Everything else being the same: maybe but probably not. He's a talent for sure but Maurice is a good coach and I thought I had read he's usually liked by his players. So there's something up here. And I read he has a lingering injury that will require surgery at some point.

[ecbm]

More fascinating to me is Cody Franson. He's young and not too expensive and could fill in for Shatty if the injury is more serious than expected. But he'd be either a very expensive rental or a guy you'd have to re-sign for a lot of money. If we didn't have a crunch coming in the form of other key guys needing to be paid soon I'd be very tempted to make a good offer for him. I haven't seen a whole lot of him but what I have seen looked good.

[cardsfan04]

I'll say nay, but just because of logistics.

First, I'd want to know about his attitude. Track suit issue sounds silly, but there's no way that's a first transgression. I don't know how big of a deal it is though.

The salary cap implications make it tough though. Kane is a $5.25M cap hit, so we'd have to give up some salary to get him, but whatever team acquires him (if he's traded) is going to do that. I'd love to get him on a line with Stastny and have STL, Backes/Oshie/Steen, Jaskin/Stastny/Kane. That's an insane top 9. But, STL line would be off limits. Backes and Stastny too. And our defense.

That pretty much leaves Berglund, Oshie and Steen. Berglund won't be a centerpiece and I'm not sure how excited I am about Berglund plus a little more salary plus some high prospects (adios Fabbri, ugh). He's younger and more talented than Steen and Oshie, but I'm not sure how much I want to alter the team's chemistry right now.

I'm interested, but can't come up with a way I would do it.

[abc789987]

And now he's a no show at practice...

[abc789987]

Sure I'd like his skill on the team but like others have said probably can't come up with the money... But not sure I'd want his ego on the team.

[not_a_wings_fan]

We already had Perron and his white skates... I really think this is a thing for some other team to sort out regardless of the player's level of talent.

Kid sounds like a project and we can pass on that.

Edit: hockey futures had him as an 8.5 B... and it looks like they really, really missed on this one. That suggests an attitude issue, one we really don't want to touch.

[glen a richter]

Nay, can't afford him. It's already a major issue for management trying to figure out how to retain Tarasenko without tacking on Kane's 6 mil on top of that.

[gaijin]

St. Louis in general doesn't favor egotist divas on their sports teams. Not saying it's never happened or never will again, but we love to love our players, and guys with bad personal attitudes tend not to subordinate their ego to the good of the team.

[dmiles2186]

Now this...

Evander Kane failed to show up in time for Winnipeg’s game in Vancouver earlier this week following an incident with Dustin Byfuglien and other teammates, Sportsnet has learned.

It was previously believed the Jets had made Kane a scratch for the game in his hometown. Following the 3-2 overtime loss on Tuesday, Paul Maurice termed it a “coach’s decision.”

However, multiple sources familiar with the situation have since indicated that Kane was not on the team’s bus to Rogers Arena and then missed a pre-game meeting. Repeated attempts to reach him were unsuccessful until approximately an hour before puck drop, when Kane answered his cellphone and said he wouldn’t be playing against the Canucks that night.

Earlier in the day, the 23-year-old winger is said to have had a run-in with teammates.

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Kane wore a track suit when the Jets players gathered that morning — a violation of team policy. Following a brief workout and stretch, Byfuglien is said to have thrown those clothes into the shower to send a message to his teammate, according to sources.

That was the last the Winnipeg players saw of Kane until the team’s charter flight home.

The Jets organization has been extremely tight-lipped about why Kane missed the game. Further clouding the issue is the belief the player has been dealing with an unspecified injury all year, one that could eventually require season-ending surgery.

He did not participate in Thursday’s practice at MTS Centre, and Maurice told reporters afterwards that he was meeting with team doctors.

Winnipeg is currently clinging to a wild-card spot in the Western Conference. It has lost five-straight games heading into Friday’s matchup with Chicago.

I was on the yay side at first...now...not so much.

[gaijin]

Now this...

Evander Kane failed to show up in time for Winnipeg’s game in Vancouver earlier this week following an incident with Dustin Byfuglien and other teammates, Sportsnet has learned.

It was previously believed the Jets had made Kane a scratch for the game in his hometown. Following the 3-2 overtime loss on Tuesday, Paul Maurice termed it a “coach’s decision.”

However, multiple sources familiar with the situation have since indicated that Kane was not on the team’s bus to Rogers Arena and then missed a pre-game meeting. Repeated attempts to reach him were unsuccessful until approximately an hour before puck drop, when Kane answered his cellphone and said he wouldn’t be playing against the Canucks that night.

Earlier in the day, the 23-year-old winger is said to have had a run-in with teammates.

ATTENTION Rogers and Shaw customers. Already enjoying Sportsnet ONE? Now get access to digital editions of Sportsnet magazine at no extra cost.

Kane wore a track suit when the Jets players gathered that morning — a violation of team policy. Following a brief workout and stretch, Byfuglien is said to have thrown those clothes into the shower to send a message to his teammate, according to sources.

That was the last the Winnipeg players saw of Kane until the team’s charter flight home.

The Jets organization has been extremely tight-lipped about why Kane missed the game. Further clouding the issue is the belief the player has been dealing with an unspecified injury all year, one that could eventually require season-ending surgery.

He did not participate in Thursday’s practice at MTS Centre, and Maurice told reporters afterwards that he was meeting with team doctors.

Winnipeg is currently clinging to a wild-card spot in the Western Conference. It has lost five-straight games heading into Friday’s matchup with Chicago.

I was on the yay side at first...now...not so much.

There's not much more you can do to alienate yourself from your coaches and teammates than to have a hissy fit when your team is "clinging to a wild-card spot."

Again, we don't know the full story so there's a grain of salt in there, but... what a jackass.

[glen a richter]

St. Louis in general doesn't favor egotist divas on their sports teams. Not saying it's never happened or never will again, but we love to love our players, and guys with bad personal attitudes tend not to subordinate their ego to the good of the team.

Boomer and Carton were just talking about this on the radio this morning. A major problem with a lot of New York metro area sports teams (Jets, Mets and Knicks, in particular) is that the fans provide for their teams unconditional love. No matter how good or bad things are going, they still attend games. The Knicks are doing miserable and still sell out, people still buy PSL's for the Jets even though they're god-awful and the Mets have made Michael Cuddyer their biggest offseason splash because we "trust Sandy Alderson". Please, that's why these teams are stuck in perpetual suck.

The Blues seem to suffer from the same problem. Aside from those of us in here, it seems a huge chunk of the casual fans, if you will, give unconditional love even when the players stink and that's why this team has never won a Cup. No accountability from the fans at large. I have a friend who's a huge Berglund fan and I question her regularly, but she insists he's the greatest thing to hit the ice since the motorized Zamboni. Why? I don't know. Blues fans should be calling into the radio every day to question the guys who are slacking and demand accountability from everyone. When the team is doing well (like now) fans should be calling in even more furiously to take to task whoever is the one or two guys who aren't pulling their weight and expecting to ride the coattails of everyone who's busting it out there game in and game out. A guy like Kane would LOVE to play in St. Louis because he may be held accountable by the coach, but he won't be held accountable by the fans and he'll be able to coast and keep his job.

If what I'm saying wasn't true, Berglund would have been gone a long time ago, Stewart would have been traded way earlier than he was, Craig Janney never would have been able to strongarm his way back into the Note after he was awarded as compensation for Petr Nedved, and Eric Brewer would have been a Blue for maybe a season and a half. Unconditional love can hurt a team plenty. If this season ends in bitter disappointment again, will heads roll or will they just say "We'll try harder next year with the same cast of characters"? I bet I know the answer.

[theohall]

Just a sidenote about Berglund

Behind the Net has a method they use to project points from most of the lower leagues, including the European ones, to NHL points. It's not an exact science.

However, the projections for points per season in the NHL for Berglund based on his 2006-2008 play in the Swedish Elite League....

35-37 points per season.

And these are Berglund's actual total points per season in the NHL (not including strike year): 47, 26, 52, 38 and 32. Currently at 16, which projects out to around 32 this season.

It looks more like the 47 and 52 seasons were Berglund excelling beyond his actual capabilities which raised our expectations.

it only works for total points, because of the way some leagues handle assists. Anyway - for Swedish Elite league players - take their elite league total points each season and multiply it by .78. This gives a relatively decent indication of what their NHL season total will be. This is based on how players have performed historically when moving up to the NHL.

Of course, we are paying Berglund way too darn much money to a ~35 point guy. 4th liners get that many points.

On topic - NAY to Kane. Head case. Hitchcock couldn't fix Perron. Kane is even more entitled due to his draft position and the idea he would be "the star" when drafted. Doubt Hitch could fix Kane's issues. Plus, as others noted, too much money for a head case.

[abc789987]

...Byfuglien is said to have thrown those clothes into the shower to send a message to his teammate, according to sources.

haha. Yeah, he's good with making friends.

[Fradi]

No way, simply because of the money he makes (Overpaid in my opinion), and mostly because of his personality possibly messing with the team-chemistry here, which seems to be quite good. Of course I don't know what led to this situation in Winnipeg, and maybe, just maybe, it's some sort of a reaction to something, and a move somewehere else might actually get his head straight, but it's still a little worrying that this can happen with him.

[gaijin]

St. Louis in general doesn't favor egotist divas on their sports teams. Not saying it's never happened or never will again, but we love to love our players, and guys with bad personal attitudes tend not to subordinate their ego to the good of the team.

Boomer and Carton were just talking about this on the radio this morning. A major problem with a lot of New York metro area sports teams (Jets, Mets and Knicks, in particular) is that the fans provide for their teams unconditional love. No matter how good or bad things are going, they still attend games. The Knicks are doing miserable and still sell out, people still buy PSL's for the Jets even though they're god-awful and the Mets have made Michael Cuddyer their biggest offseason splash because we "trust Sandy Alderson". Please, that's why these teams are stuck in perpetual suck.

The Blues seem to suffer from the same problem. Aside from those of us in here, it seems a huge chunk of the casual fans, if you will, give unconditional love even when the players stink and that's why this team has never won a Cup. No accountability from the fans at large. I have a friend who's a huge Berglund fan and I question her regularly, but she insists he's the greatest thing to hit the ice since the motorized Zamboni. Why? I don't know. Blues fans should be calling into the radio every day to question the guys who are slacking and demand accountability from everyone. When the team is doing well (like now) fans should be calling in even more furiously to take to task whoever is the one or two guys who aren't pulling their weight and expecting to ride the coattails of everyone who's busting it out there game in and game out. A guy like Kane would LOVE to play in St. Louis because he may be held accountable by the coach, but he won't be held accountable by the fans and he'll be able to coast and keep his job.

If what I'm saying wasn't true, Berglund would have been gone a long time ago, Stewart would have been traded way earlier than he was, Craig Janney never would have been able to strongarm his way back into the Note after he was awarded as compensation for Petr Nedved, and Eric Brewer would have been a Blue for maybe a season and a half. Unconditional love can hurt a team plenty. If this season ends in bitter disappointment again, will heads roll or will they just say "We'll try harder next year with the same cast of characters"? I bet I know the answer.

I think that's a slightly different issue. You are right- this does happen, including in St. Louis, but I think our neurosis as St. Louis fans is more of "we love our players to be good people, not just good athletes," rather than "turning a blind eye" to poor performance just because they are our players. Although I would say the lines do cross at times between those two viewpoints, and the former can definitely lead to the latter.

[ecbm]

St. Louis in general doesn't favor egotist divas on their sports teams. Not saying it's never happened or never will again, but we love to love our players, and guys with bad personal attitudes tend not to subordinate their ego to the good of the team.

Boomer and Carton were just talking about this on the radio this morning. A major problem with a lot of New York metro area sports teams (Jets, Mets and Knicks, in particular) is that the fans provide for their teams unconditional love. No matter how good or bad things are going, they still attend games. The Knicks are doing miserable and still sell out, people still buy PSL's for the Jets even though they're god-awful and the Mets have made Michael Cuddyer their biggest offseason splash because we "trust Sandy Alderson". Please, that's why these teams are stuck in perpetual suck.

The Blues seem to suffer from the same problem. Aside from those of us in here, it seems a huge chunk of the casual fans, if you will, give unconditional love even when the players stink and that's why this team has never won a Cup. No accountability from the fans at large. I have a friend who's a huge Berglund fan and I question her regularly, but she insists he's the greatest thing to hit the ice since the motorized Zamboni. Why? I don't know. Blues fans should be calling into the radio every day to question the guys who are slacking and demand accountability from everyone. When the team is doing well (like now) fans should be calling in even more furiously to take to task whoever is the one or two guys who aren't pulling their weight and expecting to ride the coattails of everyone who's busting it out there game in and game out. A guy like Kane would LOVE to play in St. Louis because he may be held accountable by the coach, but he won't be held accountable by the fans and he'll be able to coast and keep his job.

If what I'm saying wasn't true, Berglund would have been gone a long time ago, Stewart would have been traded way earlier than he was, Craig Janney never would have been able to strongarm his way back into the Note after he was awarded as compensation for Petr Nedved, and Eric Brewer would have been a Blue for maybe a season and a half. Unconditional love can hurt a team plenty. If this season ends in bitter disappointment again, will heads roll or will they just say "We'll try harder next year with the same cast of characters"? I bet I know the answer.

Hmph. I don't think it's for the fans to try to goad the squad unless there's some real ill intent-which you rarely see from players honestly. I can't think of many I've ever watched and said: he's sand bagging because he doesn't give a shit about the fans. Berglund, for example, I don't think he's timid and weak in tight areas because he doesn't care to please the fans. It's just a limitation. I don't think fans bitching about him (plenty do, check twitter) would have gotten him out of here. The problem as it stands is finding a taker and there's nothing we can do about that. I dare say Army knew what the majority of Blues fans would think of the deal he was given-Army just thought he was right and we were all wrong. (Oh well, we all make mistakes.)

You also can't bitch just because a whole team is sucking it. If you're a Leafs fan, you have a right and nearly an duty to bitch about how that team has been run lately. It's a disgrace. Same with the Oilers. The Blue Jackets, however, may not look so hot in the standings but they have a real project going on there and it would be short-sighted to complain about results at this point.

When the Lauries owned the Blues-again, the fans had almost an obligation to bitch, goad, boycott and stay away from games because there was clear ill intent on their part. Our current owner I believe will at least insist on changes (Hitch on 1-year deal) if there's another playoff flameout but we'll have to wait and (hopefully not) see. When it comes to the players, other than a willingness to boo crap hockey, I'll leave it to Hitch to insist on accountability.

By the way: Mets fans have voted "no confidence" with their feet. Attendance has been horrible for a few seasons-this is a team in the NLCS in '06 and that were actually in the wild card hunt until August last year. If Boomer & Carton suggest anything else they're doing their regular thing of manufacturing controversy/playing fast & loose with facts. I hate talk radio.

[dmiles2186]

St. Louis in general doesn't favor egotist divas on their sports teams. Not saying it's never happened or never will again, but we love to love our players, and guys with bad personal attitudes tend not to subordinate their ego to the good of the team.

Boomer and Carton were just talking about this on the radio this morning. A major problem with a lot of New York metro area sports teams (Jets, Mets and Knicks, in particular) is that the fans provide for their teams unconditional love. No matter how good or bad things are going, they still attend games. The Knicks are doing miserable and still sell out, people still buy PSL's for the Jets even though they're god-awful and the Mets have made Michael Cuddyer their biggest offseason splash because we "trust Sandy Alderson". Please, that's why these teams are stuck in perpetual suck.

The Blues seem to suffer from the same problem. Aside from those of us in here, it seems a huge chunk of the casual fans, if you will, give unconditional love even when the players stink and that's why this team has never won a Cup. No accountability from the fans at large. I have a friend who's a huge Berglund fan and I question her regularly, but she insists he's the greatest thing to hit the ice since the motorized Zamboni. Why? I don't know. Blues fans should be calling into the radio every day to question the guys who are slacking and demand accountability from everyone. When the team is doing well (like now) fans should be calling in even more furiously to take to task whoever is the one or two guys who aren't pulling their weight and expecting to ride the coattails of everyone who's busting it out there game in and game out. A guy like Kane would LOVE to play in St. Louis because he may be held accountable by the coach, but he won't be held accountable by the fans and he'll be able to coast and keep his job.

If what I'm saying wasn't true, Berglund would have been gone a long time ago, Stewart would have been traded way earlier than he was, Craig Janney never would have been able to strongarm his way back into the Note after he was awarded as compensation for Petr Nedved, and Eric Brewer would have been a Blue for maybe a season and a half. Unconditional love can hurt a team plenty. If this season ends in bitter disappointment again, will heads roll or will they just say "We'll try harder next year with the same cast of characters"? I bet I know the answer.

Hmph. I don't think it's for the fans to try to goad the squad unless there's some real ill intent-which you rarely see from players honestly. I can't think of many I've ever watched and said: he's sand bagging because he doesn't give a shit about the fans. Berglund, for example, I don't think he's timid and weak in tight areas because he doesn't care to please the fans. It's just a limitation. I don't think fans bitching about him (plenty do, check twitter) would have gotten him out of here. The problem as it stands is finding a taker and there's nothing we can do about that. I dare say Army knew what the majority of Blues fans would think of the deal he was given-Army just thought he was right and we were all wrong. (Oh well, we all make mistakes.)

You also can't bitch just because a whole team is sucking it. If you're a Leafs fan, you have a right and nearly an duty to bitch about how that team has been run lately. It's a disgrace. Same with the Oilers. The Blue Jackets, however, may not look so hot in the standings but they have a real project going on there and it would be short-sighted to complain about results at this point.

When the Lauries owned the Blues-again, the fans had almost an obligation to bitch, goad, boycott and stay away from games because there was clear ill intent on their part. Our current owner I believe will at least insist on changes (Hitch on 1-year deal) if there's another playoff flameout but we'll have to wait and (hopefully not) see. When it comes to the players, other than a willingness to boo crap hockey, I'll leave it to Hitch to insist on accountability.

By the way: Mets fans have voted "no confidence" with their feet. Attendance has been horrible for a few seasons-this is a team in the NLCS in '06 and that were actually in the wild card hunt until August last year. If Boomer & Carton suggest anything else they're doing their regular thing of manufacturing controversy/playing fast & loose with facts. I hate talk radio.

I agree with ecbm. Look, if you can't be happy with your team at any time that leads to a miserable sports experience. I'm not a fan of Berglund, but I don't really want to waste my time yelling about him on the radio or over Twitter because it changes nothing. He is on our team. The good thing, for us as fans, is that he's not a huge part of our team. He's probably 8-9 on the depth chart when it comes to forwards. We aren't relying on him.

Also, I do unconditionally love my team, but I feel it's on the fan to adjust their expectations. If we were running the 2005-2006 Blues out every night, it's on me to understand that, 'Okay, a team with Jamal Mayers playing first line minutes MIGHT not be great, so maybe I shouldn't get upset about every loss.' Likewise, this is a team currently on a 13 game point streak. How can that not make a fan happy? Who cares if Berglund didn't play great last night? Who cares if we weren't flawless? What team is on a game by game basis?

I don't agree that the Mets, Jets, etc. are in 'perpetual suck' because fans go to games. They're in 'perpetual suck' because they've got incompetent people running the circus year after year. Management knows that their teams suck. They get fired if the teams don't improve so whether or not fans show up really don't matter. It's not like a GM is saying, 'Ah, the Jets are 1-10. But people are showing up so we'll just coast with this roster for awhile.' It's more along the lines of, 'Oh god, 1-10. I gotta do something or else I don't have a job come January!'

Fans can root in their own way. I choose to be optimistic but it's not a blind optimism. I get Boomer and Carton are in the NY market and that's a whole different beast than STL. Still, I don't think the Blues have never won the Cup because people don't call and complain on the radio. Every player that comes here knows the only way this year's team will be different from the past is if they can make some noise in the playoffs. They know it as soon as it gets here. Why? Because the fans are fed up with the chokes. But just because we're fed up with the April chokes doesn't mean it will keep us all away. If STL fans choose to not go to games because the team is terrible? Then we're talking about a team that can potentially move (See: Rams, although I'd argue fans have supported that franchise through hell or high water as well as just purely garbage football). Teams in NY aren't going to move so if they want to stay away, they can.

But all told, I admire Jets and Knicks fans because they stick through the tough times. To me, that's the mark of a good fan base, not a bad one. We all make fun of the Blackhawks fans because they were absent for 20 years before coming out in droves. In Boomer and Carton's world, I guess that was okay because they were sending a message?

[glen a richter]

Craig Carton is a bit of a blowhard, that's true. I don't see a problem with being critical of poor play though. Yes, a lot of people have stopped going to Mets games, and there is a lot of vocal discontent with them, so maybe they were the wrong choice of an example. But take the Knicks and Rangers. If the Rangers were horrible, which they have been for many years in recent memory, people would still go. MSG is always sold out no matter how good or bad the team is. Yes, a lot of that is corporate season ticket holders, I get that. But Ranger fans can never admit their team is terrible when they're actually genuinely terrible, and I think that held them back for a long time.

I do get the distinction between poor play and poor attitude though, so perhaps my discontent was misguided.

[cardsfan04]

Kane out 4-6 months with shoulder surgery.