GDT #39: 1/3/15 | 9:30PM CST | @ Sharks | FSMW/KMOX

[dmiles2186]

Should've had 8 goals. Trade them all. Pathetic.

I laughed. Out loud. My wife looked at me awkwardly.

[glen a richter]

Jaskin seems to have finally made it, which was expected eventually. I'm kind of surprised it took so long, but he's fitting in and not a moment too soon. Next up: McRae. Seriously. Our style of 4th line is quickly becoming outdated. 4th lines need to be more productive, offensively, and expected to log more quality minutes, making it easier for the top lines to stay fresh. It's part of the reason the Rags are on a roll lately (that and they've played 9 shit opponents in the last 10 games). Lee Stempniak was low man on the team recently with 11 or so minutes of ice time, whereas Ryan Reaves, for example, is averaging 7 and a half minutes a game.

[ecbm]

Other than salary, how is losing Ott better than benching Lapierre? Ott hits, is responsible defensively, gets under other teams skin, is actually capable of making the occasional pass and getting the puck at least towards the net. Lapierre does absolutely none of those things and was directly responsible vs the Kings for not providing the defensive zone coverage and physical presence he is supposed to provide. One cannot say that about Ott. Meanwhile, Lapierre doesn't play, Ott does and the Blues explode on the Sharks on the 2nd night of a back-to-back on the road. What would playing Lapierre bring? Please explain.

Keep Lapierre on the bench permanently, even if someone gets injured. Bring somebody back up, instead.

False dichotomy...I don't want either...or Berglund (trichotomy?). Think of the opening day roster: replace Ott, Berglund and Lapierre with Porter, Jaskin and Sobotka. Smaller cap hit, better future, more production. But in reality, Hitch is in love with veterans no matter what.

[cprice12]

Other than salary, how is losing Ott better than benching Lapierre? Ott hits, is responsible defensively, gets under other teams skin, is actually capable of making the occasional pass and getting the puck at least towards the net. Lapierre does absolutely none of those things and was directly responsible vs the Kings for not providing the defensive zone coverage and physical presence he is supposed to provide. One cannot say that about Ott. Meanwhile, Lapierre doesn't play, Ott does and the Blues explode on the Sharks on the 2nd night of a back-to-back on the road. What would playing Lapierre bring? Please explain.

Keep Lapierre on the bench permanently, even if someone gets injured. Bring somebody back up, instead.

False dichotomy...I don't want either...or Berglund (trichotomy?). Think of the opening day roster: replace Ott, Berglund and Lapierre with Porter, Jaskin and Sobotka. Smaller cap hit, better future, more production. But in reality, Hitch is in love with veterans no matter what.

Sobotka is a veteran that Hitch didn't get back. But the concern with Sobotka was his salary demands and his injury issues last season. He got beat to hell last year which included a concussion. He's playing well now for Omsk, but there was a legitimate concern of signing a 3rd/4th liner to a lot of money with the injury issues he has had...plus he was unlikely to repeat his offensive numbers. Hindsight being 20/20, I'd take him back at his salary demands...but many Blues fans (me included) said "see ya" when they found out how much money he wanted.

The move that is just mindboggling, is signing Berglund to that contract. Made no sense then...makes no sense now. Had we signed him for $2.2 million? Ok...maybe...at least he'd be somewhat attractive via a trade at that salary. But $3.7?? Ugh. Why? What did he do to deserve that? Nobody will want to take that on. He doesn't really contribute that much to this team and is frustrating to watch. He does have tremendous potential, but his lackluster and ineffective play is irritating beyond description. Broken record...we all know this. We're stuck with him unless we buy him out (won't happen) or package him with a pick or prospect to salary dump...which might happen.

I semi-like having Ott on the team...just not at his salary. I think if he only made $1.5 million per, people might be ok with him...he makes about a million too much. He is one of the best agitators in the game and throws some hits around, which is worth something...just not as much as he is making.

I don't think anyone would have wanted Jaskin plugged into the starting lineup at the start of the season. He didn't show enough last year. Having that as a plan to start the year would have been a plan C I am sure. But now, it looks like he is finally rounding into form...so again with hindsight being 20/20 on Jaskin, he might have been ok to start the year here (maybe)...but he needs to continue to play well and get more games under his belt before we get all excited about him staying for good.

I've always liked Porter and was hoping he'd be on the 4th line to start the year. Would have liked to have seen him instead of a couple others.

I don't hate Lapierre. I think he does some nice things out there for us and he's a real good face off guy. He's only making $1.2 million. So...yeah.

[theohall]

I don't hate Lapierre. I think he does some nice things out there for us and he's a real good face off guy. He's only making $1.2 million. So...yeah.

Faceoffs don't make up for lack of everything else - especially when sucking so bad in his own zone, guys are getting shots off from the slot, because he is too weak to even bother to attempt to stop them. I hate Lapierre, because he provides absolutely nothing outside of faceoffs. If he isn't in the faceoff circle, he is a complete liability on the ice. I have a hard time counting how many offensive zone opportunities vanished, because he couldn't bother to a) win a board battle, b) make a hit, c) make any kind of pass to a teammate, d) attempt to put the puck on net, e) get the puck into the offensize zone with a dump opportunity or a pass to an open teammate, f) anything resembling reasonable expectations of NHL level play even from a 4th line player.

At least Ott - even at the too high salary - isn't that bad.

[ecbm]

Sobotka is a veteran that Hitch didn't get back. But the concern with Sobotka was his salary demands and his injury issues last season. He got beat to hell last year which included a concussion. He's playing well now for Omsk, but there was a legitimate concern of signing a 3rd/4th liner to a lot of money with the injury issues he has had...plus he was unlikely to repeat his offensive numbers. Hindsight being 20/20, I'd take him back at his salary demands...but many Blues fans (me included) said "see ya" when they found out how much money he wanted.

The move that is just mindboggling, is signing Berglund to that contract. Made no sense then...makes no sense now. Had we signed him for $2.2 million? Ok...maybe...at least he'd be somewhat attractive via a trade at that salary. But $3.7?? Ugh. Why? What did he do to deserve that? Nobody will want to take that on. He doesn't really contribute that much to this team and is frustrating to watch. He does have tremendous potential, but his lackluster and ineffective play is irritating beyond description. Broken record...we all know this. We're stuck with him unless we buy him out (won't happen) or package him with a pick or prospect to salary dump...which might happen.

I semi-like having Ott on the team...just not at his salary. I think if he only made $1.5 million per, people might be ok with him...he makes about a million too much. He is one of the best agitators in the game and throws some hits around, which is worth something...just not as much as he is making.

I don't think anyone would have wanted Jaskin plugged into the starting lineup at the start of the season. He didn't show enough last year. Having that as a plan to start the year would have been a plan C I am sure. But now, it looks like he is finally rounding into form...so again with hindsight being 20/20 on Jaskin, he might have been ok to start the year here (maybe)...but he needs to continue to play well and get more games under his belt before we get all excited about him staying for good.

I've always liked Porter and was hoping he'd be on the 4th line to start the year. Would have liked to have seen him instead of a couple others.

I don't hate Lapierre. I think he does some nice things out there for us and he's a real good face off guy. He's only making $1.2 million. So...yeah.

Curt-they made the wrong decision on Sobotka, simple as. Sometimes a guy is worth going a minimal amount over the market for. The decision that that wasn't the case with Sobotka during the same offseason where this FO decided that was the case with both Berglund and Ott is simply an unforced error. No further analysis needed. Just a mistake. And I don't really put much by the injuries thing. Oshie and Backes for example have also taken beatings and are still effective players. Tarasenko's already had two concussions in his career. I mean, they re-signed Ott. They acquired Gunnarson while he was recovering from surgery. No worries about durability there, I guess?

And were those fans really willing to say "see ya" to such an effective player over $300K or did they just rationalize whatever the team does, as some do? Meanwhile, I wouldn't have signed Berglund at all. The money I'd be willing to give him, his agent would tell him to walk. (Fun fact: David Perron, useless hockey player, amassed more points before his trade than Berglund and Ott combined on the worst team in the league.)

Lapierre has the lowest faceoff win % of anyone on the Blues who has taken one. Yep, even lower than Ott and Berglund. Frankly, I haven't liked the Blues' fourth line for a couple years now generally. I don't understand the fear of playing kids there. What exactly does one get out of the more-expensive Otts/Morrows/Langenbrunners/Lapierres of the world that you don't get out of Porter/Jaskin/Rattie/McCrae/whoever? Nothing in reality but again Hitch loves to use veterans regardless of the situation. Why would anyone not want Jaskin on the third line to start the season? See what he has, if he fails bring up another kid or go to the league-minimum scrap heap. Am I to believe there were Blues' fans too smitten with the safe pairs of hands that are Lapierre and Ott? I never ran into those fans. And as for Reaves-I like him and think he has more upside than we've seen but I don't understand dressing him every night and then when someone takes a shot at one of the Blues' skill players he's clearly told not to do anything about it. I've been saying this for a while: getting more production out of the 4th line is one of the subtle little things the Blues can do to improve.

[cprice12]

Sobotka is a veteran that Hitch didn't get back. But the concern with Sobotka was his salary demands and his injury issues last season. He got beat to hell last year which included a concussion. He's playing well now for Omsk, but there was a legitimate concern of signing a 3rd/4th liner to a lot of money with the injury issues he has had...plus he was unlikely to repeat his offensive numbers. Hindsight being 20/20, I'd take him back at his salary demands...but many Blues fans (me included) said "see ya" when they found out how much money he wanted.

The move that is just mindboggling, is signing Berglund to that contract. Made no sense then...makes no sense now. Had we signed him for $2.2 million? Ok...maybe...at least he'd be somewhat attractive via a trade at that salary. But $3.7?? Ugh. Why? What did he do to deserve that? Nobody will want to take that on. He doesn't really contribute that much to this team and is frustrating to watch. He does have tremendous potential, but his lackluster and ineffective play is irritating beyond description. Broken record...we all know this. We're stuck with him unless we buy him out (won't happen) or package him with a pick or prospect to salary dump...which might happen.

I semi-like having Ott on the team...just not at his salary. I think if he only made $1.5 million per, people might be ok with him...he makes about a million too much. He is one of the best agitators in the game and throws some hits around, which is worth something...just not as much as he is making.

I don't think anyone would have wanted Jaskin plugged into the starting lineup at the start of the season. He didn't show enough last year. Having that as a plan to start the year would have been a plan C I am sure. But now, it looks like he is finally rounding into form...so again with hindsight being 20/20 on Jaskin, he might have been ok to start the year here (maybe)...but he needs to continue to play well and get more games under his belt before we get all excited about him staying for good.

I've always liked Porter and was hoping he'd be on the 4th line to start the year. Would have liked to have seen him instead of a couple others.

I don't hate Lapierre. I think he does some nice things out there for us and he's a real good face off guy. He's only making $1.2 million. So...yeah.

Curt-they made the wrong decision on Sobotka, simple as. Sometimes a guy is worth going a minimal amount over the market for. The decision that that wasn't the case with Sobotka during the same offseason where this FO decided that was the case with both Berglund and Ott is simply an unforced error. No further analysis needed. Just a mistake. And I don't really put much by the injuries thing. Oshie and Backes for example have also taken beatings and are still effective players. Tarasenko's already had two concussions in his career. I mean, they re-signed Ott. They acquired Gunnarson while he was recovering from surgery. No worries about durability there, I guess?

And were those fans really willing to say "see ya" to such an effective player over $300K or did they just rationalize whatever the team does, as some do? Meanwhile, I wouldn't have signed Berglund at all. The money I'd be willing to give him, his agent would tell him to walk. (Fun fact: David Perron, useless hockey player, amassed more points before his trade than Berglund and Ott combined on the worst team in the league.)

Lapierre has the lowest faceoff win % of anyone on the Blues who has taken one. Yep, even lower than Ott and Berglund. Frankly, I haven't liked the Blues' fourth line for a couple years now generally. I don't understand the fear of playing kids there. What exactly does one get out of the more-expensive Otts/Morrows/Langenbrunners/Lapierres of the world that you don't get out of Porter/Jaskin/Rattie/McCrae/whoever? Nothing in reality but again Hitch loves to use veterans regardless of the situation. Why would anyone not want Jaskin on the third line to start the season? See what he has, if he fails bring up another kid or go to the league-minimum scrap heap. Am I to believe there were Blues' fans too smitten with the safe pairs of hands that are Lapierre and Ott? I never ran into those fans. And as for Reaves-I like him and think he has more upside than we've seen but I don't understand dressing him every night and then when someone takes a shot at one of the Blues' skill players he's clearly told not to do anything about it. I've been saying this for a while: getting more production out of the 4th line is one of the subtle little things the Blues can do to improve.

Like I said, with how everything panned out, I wish we had Sobotka now. But my point was that Sobotka played a bruising style and seemed to go to the bench quite often where you wondered if he'd come back out. He just seemed to take a beating more than most, to the point where I was concerned for his health or if he was playing through minor concussions or something. Of course, I am only speculating, but I would imagine that with his style of play and his concussion history, I can understand why that may have factored into the Blues not wanting to go over a certain dollar amount with him. Yes, other Blues players (Oshie & Backes) have had concussions and injury issues, but they offer more to the team than Sobotka does. Sobotka was also coming off a year with career highs in goals, assists, points and +/-, PIM, TOI, etc. So there is obviously a concern about awarding him with a contract based on those numbers, only to never see those numbers again. There is also a pretty important bit of info out there saying that he might not have wanted to be here anyway, which is mostly why he left. I don't have the quote in front of me, but the quote from Sobotka implied that he didn't want to play for the Blues anymore. That is a key piece of the story that people tend to forget.

Signing Ott seemed to be a reaction to losing Sobotka. Which I wasn't crazy about at the time...but I also felt that Ott would have a better year this year, which he has...just not as much as I thought. My biggest issue with him was his salary...not so much his play.

And let me set the record straight with Lapierre... I'm not a big fan of his or anything. I am just saying I don't mind him on the 4th line as he isn't making much money and he is a decent faceoff option who can draw some penalties. Obviously there is a lot of room for improvement here, but you can say that about any 4th liner on any team. I think for a 4th line player, he's about what you tend to expect...especially when the 4th line here is a banging energy checking line that is meant to get under the other team's skin. That is the typical role for a 4th line and it is the role Hitchcock has in place for our 4th line, and they are effective at that. I'd love to see Porter on the 4th line instead of Lapierre or Ott...but it's not like Porter on the 4th line is some magic solution to us winning the cup...or at least I don't see it panning out that way. Anything can happen of course.

I am a fan of playing the kids as well. But Jaskin showed us next to nothing last year. He was a disappointment when given chances last season. So plugging him in at the start of the season on the 3rd line understandably wasn't their first plan. I'm glad to see he is apparently getting a shot now, and he has played better...so good for him. Hopefully he keeps it up.

[ecbm]

Curt-we don't really disagree much here but there were a couple things...

I don't have the quote in front of me, but the quote from Sobotka implied that he didn't want to play for the Blues anymore.

I'd be fascinated to see that quote. I can imagine him saying that though. Here's what happened. After a season where Sobotka was asked to do more than ever-including a lot of minutes centering the second line due to Backes' injuries and Roy's ineffectiveness-and succeeded, it seems he was told that the team based its valuation on him being a 3rd liner at best. I can understand not wanting to play for a team that plays hardball with you like that after they have opened the checkbook for Berglund, making him one of the top-10 highest earners on the team after he had a bad, regressive season while on a bridge contract. Things like that create the suspicion that there are favorites in the locker room.

But Jaskin showed us next to nothing last year.

Ott also showed us next to nothing and has no future but was brought back on significant money to take minutes away from kids who need to develop and be evaluated. The only reason one would want him in the lineup is a preference for veterans on general principle. I agree Lapierre is less of a problem because of his more modest salary but I'd still rather see a young player getting those minutes. He strikes me as one of these useless guys who keep getting NHL minutes because...he's gotten NHL minutes in the past.