GDT #38: 1/2/15 | 9:00PM CST | @ Ducks | FSMW/KMOX

[Nyghtewynd]

My agenda is winning. Others seems to be nostalgia and excuses. Par for the course in this "baseball to the exclusion of all else" town.

I expect competent leaders to make competent decisions to make teams better. Not Army, who hasn't made a good personnel decision outside of the draft in years beyond fooling the rubes, and not Hitch, who has been given years to produce and has produced nothing.

[theohall]

Someone please explain to me Lapierre's role on this team. If it's as a physical defensive forward, he 100% failed in that role vs the Ducks allowing forwards he was supposed to be covering to score goals - TWICE!!! from the high slot. That man can't pass, can't shoot, doesn't hit, and now is sucking defensively. Why in hell hasn't he been benched?

Cole over Butler is a head scratcher.

[glen a richter]

I'm curious, though, Nyghtewynd, what EXACT changes need to be made? You seem to have all the answers for working around the silly realities of the salary cap, a team with horrible deals put into place by previous ownership that sap the team out of necessary money and the inconvenient little fact that if baseball and hockey season were the same time of year, St. Louis wouldn't even have a hockey team.

[dmiles2186]

LET'S ALL FREAK THE (FRANK) OUT!!!!

Meanwhile, the LA Kings went through a stretch of losing 9 of 10 games in January of last year. Would anyone mind telling me what they did the rest of the way? I can't remember. I'm blinded by a giant silver Cup they're currently possessing.

In fact, from Dec 23, 2013-Feb 3, 2014, the Kings won only 5 of 21 games played. But yeah, fire everyone for a bad week and a half! Trade every one! Army is a dog turd!

[glen a richter]

LET'S ALL FREAK THE (FRANK) OUT!!!!

Meanwhile, the LA Kings went through a stretch of losing 9 of 10 games in January of last year. Would anyone mind telling me what they did the rest of the way? I can't remember. I'm blinded by a giant silver Cup they're currently possessing.

In fact, from Dec 23, 2013-Feb 3, 2014, the Kings won only 5 of 21 games played. But yeah, fire everyone for a bad week and a half! Trade every one! Army is a dog turd!

I wouldn't actually be against the firing of Hitch IF he was promptly replaced by Dan Bylsma. This is based entirely on the fact that I think if he was doing his job right he would have told Pie to go home and get his brain in order. Our #1 d-man is -10, worst on the team, because he's emotionally not there. We'd be better off running a defense without him until he's mentally ready to go. That's just bad resource management and that's on the coach. Nyghtewynd, however, is insane. The defense is playing terrible which is dragging on the goaltending and he's blaming a lack of offense and Army for the losses.

[Toasted Oates]

LET'S ALL FREAK THE (FRANK) OUT!!!!

Meanwhile, the LA Kings went through a stretch of losing 9 of 10 games in January of last year. Would anyone mind telling me what they did the rest of the way? I can't remember. I'm blinded by a giant silver Cup they're currently possessing.

In fact, from Dec 23, 2013-Feb 3, 2014, the Kings won only 5 of 21 games played. But yeah, fire everyone for a bad week and a half! Trade every one! Army is a dog turd!

True. But the Kings had already gone all the way and were coming off of a 2nd straight WCF appearance. I think most fans would be a tad more sympathetic towards that particular squad. The Blues are coming off some good seasons, sure. And even some spirited playoff games that could have gone either way. Unfortunately, they only went one way and they don't stamp "spirited" on the Stanley Cup.

I'd love for them to climb out of this but even you have to admit something's off. There seems to be an imaginary force field pushing the defensemen towards their goaltender. They're taking penalty after penalty. They say the same shit after every game and when the coach feeds it to our beat writers, they eat it up and ask for seconds. Yeah, I know slumps happen in sports. However, for a franchise that has accomplished nothing while others that have had lenghty Cup droughts (LA, Chicago) turn the corner and knock the Blues out of the playoffs.....the natives are easily restless.

[ecbm]

LET'S ALL FREAK THE (FRANK) OUT!!!!

Meanwhile, the LA Kings went through a stretch of losing 9 of 10 games in January of last year. Would anyone mind telling me what they did the rest of the way? I can't remember. I'm blinded by a giant silver Cup they're currently possessing.

In fact, from Dec 23, 2013-Feb 3, 2014, the Kings won only 5 of 21 games played. But yeah, fire everyone for a bad week and a half! Trade every one! Army is a dog turd!

I get your general sentiment but you're not helping yourself by comparing a team in LA that's won two Stanley Cups and a whole gang of playoff series over the last few seasons a Blues team whose current incarnation have one division win and one playoff series win.

[cprice12]

LET'S ALL FREAK THE (FRANK) OUT!!!!

Meanwhile, the LA Kings went through a stretch of losing 9 of 10 games in January of last year. Would anyone mind telling me what they did the rest of the way? I can't remember. I'm blinded by a giant silver Cup they're currently possessing.

In fact, from Dec 23, 2013-Feb 3, 2014, the Kings won only 5 of 21 games played. But yeah, fire everyone for a bad week and a half! Trade every one! Army is a dog turd!

I get your general sentiment but you're not helping yourself by comparing a team in LA that's won two Stanley Cups and a whole gang of playoff series over the last few seasons a Blues team whose current incarnation have one division win and one playoff series win.

Be that as it may, LA has not been that impressive of a regular season team. They play well enough during the season and then turn it on in the playoffs. And during their first cup run, they didn't have the "cup experience" to pull from.

LA has done that very thing twice now en route to their two cups in the last three years.
During their first Cup season, they finished 13th overall and were only 29-23-12 through February...but went 11-4-3 the rest of the way and squeaked in with 95 pts.
Last year they finished 9th overall and were only 33-22-6 through February...but went 13-6-2 the rest of the way, got in with 100 pts and won the cup. And at one point last year during a 21 game stretch, they went 5-14-2 (which was mentioned earlier). They also finished the season with only one win in their last five games.
LA wasn't great last year, and they were worse three years ago. And in both years they won cups.

Chicago did it last year to a lesser degree. They finished 7th overall (below us) and were an OT goal away from going to the finals, and most likely beating the Rangers and winning another cup.

You see it every year. The level of play in the playoffs is amplified tremendously by those teams who advance. You just need to get in and then get hot and get a good bit of luck as well. The Blues haven't really ever had luck on their side in the playoffs. I think they are way overdue for the pucks to start bouncing their way to help them win a few playoff series.

We've had a bunch of killer regular season teams, as well as a President's Trophy winning team and it didn't result in anything. So while I get pissed when they lose and at the way that they lose sometimes, I always step back and remind myself of the bigger picture.

Right now we are 9th overall in the standings...and I'd say we are a good bet to move up at least a few spots after getting Schwartz and Elliott back...and of course if we stay healthy.
LA is doing what they always do and are currently 10th overall. So yeah, I think we're fine right now.

Yes, to some degree they should always be looking for ways to improve the team when they aren't playing up to expectations (unless you want to do something crazy like trading Courtnall, Ronning, Momesso & Dirk for Butcher & Quinn), but folks need to calm down in December and early January if we hit a rough patch (it happens to every team...even the cup champions...pretty much every single year). You don't win the cup in December or January. You win it in the playoffs.

With that said... trade Berglund yesterday.

[dmiles2186]

LET'S ALL FREAK THE (FRANK) OUT!!!!

Meanwhile, the LA Kings went through a stretch of losing 9 of 10 games in January of last year. Would anyone mind telling me what they did the rest of the way? I can't remember. I'm blinded by a giant silver Cup they're currently possessing.

In fact, from Dec 23, 2013-Feb 3, 2014, the Kings won only 5 of 21 games played. But yeah, fire everyone for a bad week and a half! Trade every one! Army is a dog turd!

I get your general sentiment but you're not helping yourself by comparing a team in LA that's won two Stanley Cups and a whole gang of playoff series over the last few seasons a Blues team whose current incarnation have one division win and one playoff series win.

I keep comparing them to the Kings because before 2012, did any of us feel like they were about to go on to be a dynasty? No. They were in the same. exact. boat. as the Blues are ('67 and zero Cups). It too just one year. Everyone is so caught up on comparing the current Blues to past Blues teams that have failed. They're not them. Once this team has lost 4 games in a 7 games series...then we can. But the Blues have a bad week and everyone immediately goes to the, 'Well this is exactly like (name the year)!' 'These guys choke just like (name the year).' 'We lost to the worst team in the league! It's like the Sharks in round 1 all over again!'

No wonder this team constantly trips up. They're saddled with about 50 years of failure even though most of these guys have only been a part of about 5-6 years of that. It's unfair and it's annoying. Not only are they having to battle the other team on the ice, they're battling this stigma that follows them and pops up every time they lose 2 games in a row.

Sorry, I'm off my soap box.

Back to the original point, the Kings weren't the Kings just 3 years ago. It took one great stretch run and playoff run to change that. I have faith that can and will happen soon.

[Oaklandblue]

The Blues historically have, when it's mattered the most, choke. They refuse to take that extra step, refuse to push their limits just a little more and refuse to put their bodies on the line. When they are met with fire, they back off. Almost every time. Against a weaker opponent, you see glimpses of it, but against a fully healed, rolling tough contender, they get their clocks cleaned.

I keep hearing Injury, Injury, Injury, well, where is the rest of the team? I don't want to hear rookies or buying in or any of that other bullshit, you're IN THE NHL. YOU HAVE MADE IT. YOU CAN SEE THE STANLEY CUP FROM WHERE YOU ARE SITTING. YOU ARE THIS >><<CLOSE TO BEING LEGENDARY.

But after all is said and done, they don't go far enough. Hit hard enough or push themselves just that little bit more to contribute to win. But they're in line for the big contract in the offseason.

The problem is the culture. It's really simply. 40+ years of heartbreaking history and not a single player on that squad inspires confidence or is contagious with desire beyond Frank. And Frank is just that damn good. So is Elliott. But that's skill. Where's the desire? Where's the heart?

When it is all said and done, the painful truth is, this team doesn't want it bad enough. Lackluster is acceptable in that lockerroom and that should absolutely NOT be tolerated. They reward idiots like Berglund and Ott for absolutely jack shit. They absolutely NEED a big trade and some people fired to serve two purposes: To get the team rolling and to get them inspired. Stop treating these people as friends and start treating them as employees and if one of them sucks butt, you ship their ass to Edmonton and tell the rest of them 'That's you if you can't hack it here'. Set some standards, set some examples and the players will respect you. That's the kind of respect we are seeing that is missing.

[dmiles2186]

The Blues historically have, when it's mattered the most, choke. They refuse to take that extra step, refuse to push their limits just a little more and refuse to put their bodies on the line. When they are met with fire, they back off. Almost every time. Against a weaker opponent, you see glimpses of it, but against a fully healed, rolling tough contender, they get their clocks cleaned.

I keep hearing Injury, Injury, Injury, well, where is the rest of the team? I don't want to hear rookies or buying in or any of that other bullshit, you're IN THE NHL. YOU HAVE MADE IT. YOU CAN SEE THE STANLEY CUP FROM WHERE YOU ARE SITTING. YOU ARE THIS >><<CLOSE TO BEING LEGENDARY.

But after all is said and done, they don't go far enough. Hit hard enough or push themselves just that little bit more to contribute to win. But they're in line for the big contract in the offseason.

The problem is the culture. It's really simply. 40+ years of heartbreaking history and not a single player on that squad inspires confidence or is contagious with desire beyond Frank. And Frank is just that damn good. So is Elliott. But that's skill. Where's the desire? Where's the heart?

When it is all said and done, the painful truth is, this team doesn't want it bad enough. Lackluster is acceptable in that lockerroom and that should absolutely NOT be tolerated. They reward idiots like Berglund and Ott for absolutely jack shit. They absolutely NEED a big trade and some people fired to serve two purposes: To get the team rolling and to get them inspired. Stop treating these people as friends and start treating them as employees and if one of them sucks butt, you ship their ass to Edmonton and tell the rest of them 'That's you if you can't hack it here'. Set some standards, set some examples and the players will respect you. That's the kind of respect we are seeing that is missing.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. 50 years of failure heaped onto this team. How do you know this team doesn't want it bad enough? They're 40 games in. They haven't had a chance to prove they want it bad enough.

Also, I'd love to be there in person if and when you told Backes, Steen, Reaves, Lehtera, Petro, Shatty, Jackman that, 'they don't want it bad enough.' Sure that would go over really well.

[Toasted Oates]

LET'S ALL FREAK THE (FRANK) OUT!!!!

Meanwhile, the LA Kings went through a stretch of losing 9 of 10 games in January of last year. Would anyone mind telling me what they did the rest of the way? I can't remember. I'm blinded by a giant silver Cup they're currently possessing.

In fact, from Dec 23, 2013-Feb 3, 2014, the Kings won only 5 of 21 games played. But yeah, fire everyone for a bad week and a half! Trade every one! Army is a dog turd!

I get your general sentiment but you're not helping yourself by comparing a team in LA that's won two Stanley Cups and a whole gang of playoff series over the last few seasons a Blues team whose current incarnation have one division win and one playoff series win.

I keep comparing them to the Kings because before 2012, did any of us feel like they were about to go on to be a dynasty? No. They were in the same. exact. boat. as the Blues are ('67 and zero Cups). It too just one year. Everyone is so caught up on comparing the current Blues to past Blues teams that have failed. They're not them. Once this team has lost 4 games in a 7 games series...then we can. But the Blues have a bad week and everyone immediately goes to the, 'Well this is exactly like (name the year)!' 'These guys choke just like (name the year).' 'We lost to the worst team in the league! It's like the Sharks in round 1 all over again!'

No wonder this team constantly trips up. They're saddled with about 50 years of failure even though most of these guys have only been a part of about 5-6 years of that. It's unfair and it's annoying. Not only are they having to battle the other team on the ice, they're battling this stigma that follows them and pops up every time they lose 2 games in a row.

Sorry, I'm off my soap box.

Back to the original point, the Kings weren't the Kings just 3 years ago. It took one great stretch run and playoff run to change that. I have faith that can and will happen soon.

I appreciate your optimism and I wish like hell I could be more glass half full. There's no reason they should lose another game in January. I know that's lofty, but this 7 game homestand (after the Yotes tomorrow) has me pretty excited (and horrified) about what the standings could look like in February. We'll see which squad shows up.

As far as trades/firings go, I'm going to guess they'll ride this crew out (Hitch included) unless they completely shit the bed at some point this season. Despite the holiday swoon, that hasn't happened yet. January presents some big opportunities and if they can't meet those, it may be an interesting situation.

[Oaklandblue]

The Blues historically have, when it's mattered the most, choke. They refuse to take that extra step, refuse to push their limits just a little more and refuse to put their bodies on the line. When they are met with fire, they back off. Almost every time. Against a weaker opponent, you see glimpses of it, but against a fully healed, rolling tough contender, they get their clocks cleaned.

I keep hearing Injury, Injury, Injury, well, where is the rest of the team? I don't want to hear rookies or buying in or any of that other bullshit, you're IN THE NHL. YOU HAVE MADE IT. YOU CAN SEE THE STANLEY CUP FROM WHERE YOU ARE SITTING. YOU ARE THIS >><<CLOSE TO BEING LEGENDARY.

But after all is said and done, they don't go far enough. Hit hard enough or push themselves just that little bit more to contribute to win. But they're in line for the big contract in the offseason.

The problem is the culture. It's really simply. 40+ years of heartbreaking history and not a single player on that squad inspires confidence or is contagious with desire beyond Frank. And Frank is just that damn good. So is Elliott. But that's skill. Where's the desire? Where's the heart?

When it is all said and done, the painful truth is, this team doesn't want it bad enough. Lackluster is acceptable in that lockerroom and that should absolutely NOT be tolerated. They reward idiots like Berglund and Ott for absolutely jack shit. They absolutely NEED a big trade and some people fired to serve two purposes: To get the team rolling and to get them inspired. Stop treating these people as friends and start treating them as employees and if one of them sucks butt, you ship their ass to Edmonton and tell the rest of them 'That's you if you can't hack it here'. Set some standards, set some examples and the players will respect you. That's the kind of respect we are seeing that is missing.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. 50 years of failure heaped onto this team. How do you know this team doesn't want it bad enough? They're 40 games in. They haven't had a chance to prove they want it bad enough.

Also, I'd love to be there in person if and when you told Backes, Steen, Reaves, Lehtera, Petro, Shatty, Jackman that, 'they don't want it bad enough.' Sure that would go over really well.

One playoff series win in TWELVE YEARS. Heaped on the team? This is earned.

These guys have the ability to change that themselves. They have to want it bad enough and work hard enough to do it. Luck and all that other stuff is fine and dandy, but that's all excuses. If they walked out, played a FULL game that I have seen them do this season maybe once and still lost, I wouldn't complain as much. But this team is sloppy for a group that is supposed to have some very elite skillsets. This isn't some negative nancy throwing the team under a bus, this has been played out in front of us year in, year out. And yes, I would have absolutely no problem with telling any one of them that to their face, and guess what? I'd bet you half of them would agree with me, because their performance tells the tale, not their mouth, otherwise Patrik Berglund would be the next Gretzky.

[dmiles2186]

The Blues historically have, when it's mattered the most, choke. They refuse to take that extra step, refuse to push their limits just a little more and refuse to put their bodies on the line. When they are met with fire, they back off. Almost every time. Against a weaker opponent, you see glimpses of it, but against a fully healed, rolling tough contender, they get their clocks cleaned.

I keep hearing Injury, Injury, Injury, well, where is the rest of the team? I don't want to hear rookies or buying in or any of that other bullshit, you're IN THE NHL. YOU HAVE MADE IT. YOU CAN SEE THE STANLEY CUP FROM WHERE YOU ARE SITTING. YOU ARE THIS >><<CLOSE TO BEING LEGENDARY.

But after all is said and done, they don't go far enough. Hit hard enough or push themselves just that little bit more to contribute to win. But they're in line for the big contract in the offseason.

The problem is the culture. It's really simply. 40+ years of heartbreaking history and not a single player on that squad inspires confidence or is contagious with desire beyond Frank. And Frank is just that damn good. So is Elliott. But that's skill. Where's the desire? Where's the heart?

When it is all said and done, the painful truth is, this team doesn't want it bad enough. Lackluster is acceptable in that lockerroom and that should absolutely NOT be tolerated. They reward idiots like Berglund and Ott for absolutely jack shit. They absolutely NEED a big trade and some people fired to serve two purposes: To get the team rolling and to get them inspired. Stop treating these people as friends and start treating them as employees and if one of them sucks butt, you ship their ass to Edmonton and tell the rest of them 'That's you if you can't hack it here'. Set some standards, set some examples and the players will respect you. That's the kind of respect we are seeing that is missing.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. 50 years of failure heaped onto this team. How do you know this team doesn't want it bad enough? They're 40 games in. They haven't had a chance to prove they want it bad enough.

Also, I'd love to be there in person if and when you told Backes, Steen, Reaves, Lehtera, Petro, Shatty, Jackman that, 'they don't want it bad enough.' Sure that would go over really well.

One playoff series win in TWELVE YEARS. Heaped on the team? This is earned.

These guys have the ability to change that themselves. They have to want it bad enough and work hard enough to do it. Luck and all that other stuff is fine and dandy, but that's all excuses. If they walked out, played a FULL game that I have seen them do this season maybe once and still lost, I wouldn't complain as much. But this team is sloppy for a group that is supposed to have some very elite skillsets. This isn't some negative nancy throwing the team under a bus, this has been played out in front of us year in, year out. And yes, I would have absolutely no problem with telling any one of them that to their face, and guess what? I'd bet you half of them would agree with me, because their performance tells the tale, not their mouth, otherwise Patrik Berglund would be the next Gretzky.

So Backes has been with the Blues for 12 years? Brian Elliott has been with the Blues for 12 years? Schwartz? Tarasenko? Oshie? Petro?

By my count, the only guy who has been here for all 12 years is Barrett Jackman. Trust me, I'm frustrated. But because this team is going through a bad stretch, I'm not going to blame them for a choke back in 2004 when Mike Danton was busy gettin' arrested. I understand this team isn't playing well this year. It's concerning, but I keep waiting for them to turn the corner. As bad as they've played (by our judgement), we still have the 4th most points in the West. That's why I'm optimistic, because if this team finds the high gear, then we get rolling.

[ecbm]

How do you know this team doesn't want it bad enough?

From what I've seen on the ice recently. From massive regression from so many players. From poor, lazy play in their own end. From how they've failed to raise their defensive game and eliminate mistakes for either a nailed on hall-of-fame goalie OR a young pup. From the third period of game six against the Hawks last year. You know, the old eye test.

As I keep saying, a lot of the angst here is about the fact that until we see what the Blues do in the playoffs there's no way to evaluate this team effectively. Yes, they could be like the Kings and finish 7th in the conference and turn it on in April. Totally true. All would, of course, be forgiven. They also could win the President's Trophy and get bounced by the Kings or Blackhawks in round 1 again. Then we would all have a sad with jNe and his emo friends. What really got me worried over the last month was watching the Jets creep up in the standings and having to wonder what level of catastrophe it would be if this team actually missed the playoffs...

[flyingnote38]

I keep comparing them to the Kings because before 2012, did any of us feel like they were about to go on to be a dynasty? No. They were in the same. exact. boat. as the Blues are ('67 and zero Cups). It too just one year.

The point I think we keep glossing over is that the 2012 Kings made a major core altering deal that turned them from a team fighting for its playoff lives into the Cup winner. The Kings dealt Jack Johnson (their then #2 defenseman) and a #1 pick for Jeff Carter. Its easy to underestimate Carter at this point since he's a hated scum sucking King, but at the time of the deal he was 27 and had scored 115 goals over the three seasons prior to the 2011-12 season. From the Carter deal to the end of the season, the Kings averaged over a goal per game for more than they did before the deal. And in fact, were a better team than the Canucks over that stretch of the season based on goal differential. It was hardly a typical 1 vs 8 match-up. The better team won; it just happened to be the 8th seed. The hardest part of suggesting the Blues emulate the 2012 Kings with this sort of deal is that there will not be a player like Carter available at the deadline, if there were it would take more the Bouwmeester and a #1 to get them, and we would have to clear a boatload of cap space beyond Bouw to fit them in. Probably the closest name that has come up as a possible player to be dealt (as a concept not necessarily to the Blues) would be Phil Kessel who carries a $8 million per year cap hit for life and a coach killer reputation.

Really the "sit tight and let them gel" argument suggests the 2010 Blackhawks as the model. Since the 2011 Blues were the hot pick to be the next 2010 Blackhawks based on a young core that looked ready to collectively make big steps up in their games, it seems a little odd to trot that comparison out again but................

The Hawks in 2009 got eliminated by the Red Wings in the conference finals(?) -- sorry going on memory, too lazy to fact check. They started the offseason by signing the top offensive free agent, Marian Hossa, to a huge contract. They then proceeded to roll through the regular season and the playoffs without making a significant mid -season deal. They dealt Cam Barker for Kim Johnsson and Nick Leddy to get Johnsson's expiring contract since they knew a cap crunch was coming, but Johnsson got hurt and didn't even play in the playoffs. The stock line on that Hawks team is about the core all taking a huge leap forward (Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Sharp and Keith) and Hossa's signing is kindof overlooked. In part this is due to the fact that Hoss missed the first quarter of the season with an injury and by the time he first dressed with the Hawks, they were already at the top of the standings and leading the league in both goals scored per game and fewest goals allowed per game.

One might draw some analogies between Hossa and Stastny including the early season injury history.

[crazyhorse]

IMG_9182.jpeg (112 KiB) Viewed 587 times

[Oaklandblue]

The team has responded. They officially want it bad enough.