AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

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AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by dmiles2186 »

I've never been overly excited by the 4 on 4, followed by the 3 on 3 idea that Holland has floated around for awhile, but the numbers so far have been a pretty good indication of how much shootouts have dropped since the AHL started experimenting with this. If we could see that kind of impact on the NHL, I'd be okay with them trying this out.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... soc_trk=tw
Over time, the shootout has lost its luster, not only as the gimmick has become mundane and predictable but as general managers around the NHL decry its fairness as a means to determine a game's winner.

Ken Holland, general manager of the Detroit Red Wings, has been a vocal advocate for changes to overtime that reduce the need for shootouts. One idea was to institute a potentially chaotic 3-on-3 after the 4-on-4, an idea that’s been passed over by his peers for years.

The American Hockey League, meanwhile, decided to be more proactive this season. The incubator for many NHL rules changes, the AHL decided to try out the 3-on-3 overtime without the NHL being the catalyst for the test.

The AHL format is seven minutes: 4-on-4 for at least three minutes, then 3-on-3 for the remainder beginning at the next stoppage. The results so far? The shootout’s frequency and influence has been dramatically decreased.

Through Monday’s action, there have been 179 total games played. Thirty-six have gone to overtime, or 20.1 percent.

Of those 36 games, just six have gone to a shootout, or 16.7 percent.
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Here’s how dramatic the decline’s been so far: Last year, 64.7 percent of all overtime games in the AHL went to a shootout. That’s 178 of 275 of overtime games.

But has the 3-on-3 overtime been an influence?

The number of overtime games is still on track. Every year since 2001-02, the AHL has had between 21 and 24 percent of all of its games going to overtime, so despite the slight down-click, there’s no change there.

Of the 36 OT games this season, 16 have been decided in the 4-on-4 and 14 have been decided in the 3-on-3.

Let’s be generous and say that every game that ended in the 3-on-3 went to a shootout. Combining the two categories, we’d have 55.6 percent of AHL overtime games going to the shootout – statistically closer to last year’s total.

So in theory, the 3-on-3 has gobbled up a chunk of the games that would have gone to a shootout. In theory.

There are still legitimate concerns about the 3-on-3 overtime and the way teams, in the long-haul, will approach them strategically (i.e. playing more conservatively to protect against mistakes). But having 14 of 36 OT games (38.9 percent) ending in the 3-on-3 tells us that it’s producing goals, which is good.

Mirtle had more on this yesterday, with regard to the NHL and 3-on-3:

In a typical NHL game, teams generate roughly 2.4 goals and 29 shots per 60 minutes of 5-on-5 play. That rises to 2.8 and 32 shots per 60 minutes if you go to 4-on-4.

But 3-on-3 is a whole new animal. Teams have put up more than 60 shots and scored more than eight goals per 60 minutes, with all the odd-man rushes and chaos proving great fun for everyone but the coaches.

The quality of chances is so high that the average shooting percentage at 3-on-3 is more than 13 per cent, way up from the 8 per cent average at 5-on-5.

Kudos to Dave Andrews and the AHL for trying something new. It’s early, but it appears the AHL has lit the way for the NHL to overcome its shootout addiction. Because friends don’t let friends end games without a pass being attempted.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by cardsfan04 »

The 3 on 3 thing has always struck me as gimmicky, but so is the shootout I guess. This might be more exciting.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by dmiles2186 »

cardsfan04 wrote:The 3 on 3 thing has always struck me as gimmicky, but so is the shootout I guess. This might be more exciting.
Me too. But the thing it has going for it is that people pass the puck, people defend, there is team play, and there are no breakaways unless they're earned.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by glen a richter »

They could also reduce shootouts by, you know, going back to 1 pt each for the tie.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by dmiles2186 »

glen a richter wrote:They could also reduce shootouts by, you know, going back to 1 pt each for the tie.
Never going to happen.

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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by cprice12 »

Why in the hell don't they just make it 10 minutes of 4 on 4? I think you'd see the number of shootouts cut in half.
I think 3 on 3 would be a mistake.
And for the record...I like the shootout. It beats the hell out of a game ending in a tie. I used to hate that...investing a few hours of my valuable evening to watch a game and it ends in a tie? WTF?
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by not_a_wings_fan »

I still think they should make games three points total, no matter how they are settled.

If you win in Reg, you get all three.

If you win after reg you only get two, the other team gets one.

It's silly for a team with 10 SO wins to be considered better than a team that won 8 more in regulation.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by ViPeRx007 »

cprice12 wrote:Why in the hell don't they just make it 10 minutes of 4 on 4? I think you'd see the number of shootouts cut in half.
I think 3 on 3 would be a mistake.
And for the record...I like the shootout. It beats the hell out of a game ending in a tie. I used to hate that...investing a few hours of my valuable evening to watch a game and it ends in a tie? WTF?
I second the 10 min 4 on 4. That's all they need to do. 3 on 3 would be just as gimmicky as the shootout. Heck, it would be even more so, IMO. At least with a shootout there's some structure as far as skating in and not stopping, etc. There would be a lot of silly, pee-wee league goals with a 3 on 3, I'd imagine.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

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cprice12 wrote:Why in the hell don't they just make it 10 minutes of 4 on 4? I think you'd see the number of shootouts cut in half.
I think 3 on 3 would be a mistake.
And for the record...I like the shootout. It beats the hell out of a game ending in a tie. I used to hate that...investing a few hours of my valuable evening to watch a game and it ends in a tie? WTF?
I've always like the 4 on 4 for 10 minutes idea I think 4 on 4 works, it's just that 5 mins isn't a lot of time. I'd be okay either way as long as it reduced shootouts. The shootout is the equivalent of a baseball game going 11 innings and then they decide to have a home run derby to determine the winner.

I wouldn't be opposed to ties again, because there are ties that can feel like wins, ties that can feel like losses, and ties where both teams just beat each other up but can't get past each other. It's not the most satisfying end to things but neither is my team losing on a shootout after they dominate OT but can't score only to stop that and turn it into a skills competition.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by cardsfan04 »

I could go for 4 on 4 for 10 mins. That could be fun.

I really hated ties and would much rather keep it as is than revert back to them. I don't really feel strongly one way or the other about shootouts. They're definitely gimmicky and they allow for tons of variance in awarding a point which I'm not too fond of. But, they are fun to watch, and every team experiences that same variance.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by big d note »

I wish that ShootoutsNEVERexisted. Ties never bothered me, but I like the 3-point system.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

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Here's something that bothers me about shootouts. For years, the league had games end in ties to avoid skills competitions determining the outcomes. Then they change the rules to appease new fans. But the frikken nba, perhaps the biggest showboating "all about me" league in the universe didn't introduce dunk contests as a means of determining the outcome of games after their recent lockout. Why is stupidity ok for the nhl but not the Nba?
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

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glen a richter wrote:Here's something that bothers me about shootouts. For years, the league had games end in ties to avoid skills competitions determining the outcomes. Then they change the rules to appease new fans. But the frikken nba, perhaps the biggest showboating "all about me" league in the universe didn't introduce dunk contests as a means of determining the outcome of games after their recent lockout. Why is stupidity ok for the nhl but not the Nba?
THIS.

It's ridiculous when you think of the NBA or MLB equivalent (homerun derby?). I wonder what soccer fans think about shootouts in their sport? The only reason I see it making more sense for them is because they can go a really long time without scoring. Today's NHL isn't that way, for the most part.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by dmiles2186 »

ViPeRx007 wrote:
glen a richter wrote:Here's something that bothers me about shootouts. For years, the league had games end in ties to avoid skills competitions determining the outcomes. Then they change the rules to appease new fans. But the frikken nba, perhaps the biggest showboating "all about me" league in the universe didn't introduce dunk contests as a means of determining the outcome of games after their recent lockout. Why is stupidity ok for the nhl but not the Nba?
THIS.

It's ridiculous when you think of the NBA or MLB equivalent (homerun derby?). I wonder what soccer fans think about shootouts in their sport? The only reason I see it making more sense for them is because they can go a really long time without scoring. Today's NHL isn't that way, for the most part.
The reason the NBA doesn't have to implement a dunk contest is because they just keep playing as many overtimes as needed to settle the score. And because they score on almost every possession, the chance of it going 3, 4, 5 OT's is rare.

As a soccer fan, I like that regular season games and some tournament games end in ties. Penalty kicks are only used when a winner is absolutely needed, however, proceeding the penalties is two 15 minute overtimes. These overtimes are golden goals. You play the full 30 minutes regardless. If teams are still tied after the 120 mins, then it goes to penalties. It's not the most satisfying end, especially when a World Cup final goes to penalties, but since scoring is so low and 120 mins of play has already proceeded it, most soccer fans can at least stomach it. And it's just a shot from a spot, there's no dekes, spin-o-ramas, anything like that. Just you and the keeper and trying not to shank it.

That's why it would be nice for the 10 min OT, at the very least, just to give these teams some time to get into the flow of things. I know 20 minutes is probably asking too much, but it'd be no different than the NFL who allows another full 15 minutes of OT before the game is done.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by glen a richter »

You absolutely need a winner in the playoffs, but that's the one time a year where there's no shootouts. So they're saying it's good enough for the regular season but not the playoffs? It's ok to have two different sets of rules for settling ties depending on the time of year? I would be cool with a 20 minute running clock 5 on 5 no goalies most goals wins.
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

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Shoot-outs are shite. Games should be decided by jousting contests.

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Maybe more like this though.

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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

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Not budging from my original position-justified by current hand wringing over exactly the problems that people like me pointed out-that there was never anything wrong with 1pt for a tie. Now people realize it's a gimmick and that we might as well just a flip a coin to see who wins? How was that not apparent when this idea was first raised? I hope it goes away and we go back to ties.
cprice12 wrote:And for the record...I like the shootout. It beats the hell out of a game ending in a tie. I used to hate that...investing a few hours of my valuable evening to watch a game and it ends in a tie? WTF?


Those games actually were ties, Curt-the teams played to a stalemate over 65 minutes. That's a tie. The NHL just used a gimmick to make you think they weren't.
ViPeRx007 wrote: I wonder what soccer fans think about shootouts in their sport?
They don't bother me-note that they're only used in the elimination stage of tournaments and sometimes not even then (sometimes they re-play the entire match later). You know what they did before the shoot-out? A coin toss. I'm glad you brought up soccer in this context, a sport most Americans find pussified and otherwise typically Euro-but note that in that sport NOBODY EVER GETS A POINT FOR LOSING!!!
glenn a richter wrote:You absolutely need a winner in the playoffs, but that's the one time a year where there's no shootouts. So they're saying it's good enough for the regular season but not the playoffs?
Good call, glenn. More evidence that it's a gimmick. No hockey person in the NHL brass ever thought this actually improved the game. They just thought they could sell this crap to a few more "casual fans".

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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

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ecbm wrote:They don't bother me-note that they're only used in the elimination stage of tournaments and sometimes not even then (sometimes they re-play the entire match later). You know what they did before the shoot-out? A coin toss. I'm glad you brought up soccer in this context, a sport most Americans find pussified and otherwise typically Euro-but note that in that sport NOBODY EVER GETS A POINT FOR LOSING!!!
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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

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big d note wrote:I wish that ShootoutsNEVERexisted. Ties never bothered me, but I like the 3-point system.
Me too. You know, European soccer leagues had similar problems with teams bunched up in the rankings and lots of tiebreakers coming into play up to the 90s-then they implemented a 3pt win/1pt draw system, which completely solved that problem. I don't think the shootout was meant to do what was claimed-to separate teams in the standings. I think it was purely to entice people in the sunbelt and NFL fans to watch hockey.

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Re: AHL Trying To Reduce Shootouts

Post by ViPeRx007 »

ecbm wrote:They don't bother me-note that they're only used in the elimination stage of tournaments and sometimes not even then (sometimes they re-play the entire match later). You know what they did before the shoot-out? A coin toss. I'm glad you brought up soccer in this context, a sport most Americans find pussified and otherwise typically Euro-but note that in that sport NOBODY EVER GETS A POINT FOR LOSING!!!
That might actually be worse. Using a shootout in tournaments? Imagine it in the playoffs of the NHL...shudders. A coin flip? They should just arm wrestle. Maybe we should just be happy with what we have, but I still see no problem with a 10 min OT and then a shootout if you absolutely have to have it. I have no problems with a tie though.
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