Ryan Miller

[ViPeRx007]

I know he's not with us anymore, but I can't help but continuously see articles about Ryan Miller where they are essentially taking the Blues' playoff failure last season and exploiting "feel-good" stories to promote his success this season. Frankly, I think they're wrong and I think it paints the Blues and their fans in a wrong light. Almost everything I see reads like everyone in St. Louis blames him for last season.

Personally, I noticed the team changing back in January, before we even had Miller, and that's when my version of the "collapse" started. There was a brief period after we got Miller where it looked like we might be getting back on track, but it puttered out. I don't blame that on Miller. I don't blame any of it on Miller, honestly. That's my side of it anyway. Maybe I'm wrong. Looking back on it now, I'm just curious what you all honestly think.

I don't even know what I'm trying to prove with this. I guess I feel bad for Ryan Miller, who I think has always been a great goaltender, just caught us at the wrong time, and is now having to "win people back" or something, when he shouldn't have to...but then I feel bad for our team for obvious reasons, plus I think those articles make us look like idiots who just scapegoat individuals for things that are clearly a team failure.

This was the latest article to hit me the wrong way:
CLICK

[glen a richter]

I blame miller for mailing it in during game 5, but the teams problems were much deeper than that. Lack of consistent offensive threats, slow as molasses attempts to enter the zone and a tendency to shoot so wide the goalies in another state could make the save. I think those areas have been addressed. I also think that as long as Ott and Berglund have sizeable roles on this team the Cup isn't happening.

[cardsfan04]

I don't blame him, but I consider it a failed trade.

He was a "final piece" kinda trade and we didn't go any further with him than we would have without him. We got him to steal some games for us in the playoffs and he didn't do that. I don't blame Army for making the trade either. It just didn't work. Sometimes that happens and there doesn't have to be one person to blame. When you take a chance, sometimes it won't work. Just the nature of the beast.

But, in our 4 playoff losses, we scored 6 goals. I don't think he lived up to the hype in his short time here, but we lost to the Blackhawks as a team. He could have been better, but so could have the guys in front of him. It was a group effort. Blaming one person for that playoff loss is myopic.

[not_a_wings_fan]

I think miller played like shit and I don't think he fit with the guys in the room. I think the expectations were too large for Miller, which isn't his fault, but his play was sub-par across the board.

I do think his total shit play is a big reason we went home early, but it wasn't the only reason.

[ViPeRx007]

It's not just the articles though. There is a person who claims he went to almost all the home games last season (I guess that makes him a better fan than me for some reason?) and that "everyone" blames Miller. I'm not arguing that the trade didn't work out, but I am arguing that not everyone solely blames him. I have to think that his "everyone" is mostly just the casual fans that don't know any better, but I'm open to be proven wrong if that's not the case.

[not_a_wings_fan]

I don't think you can underestimate the impact of the trades on the team. Halak may not have been stellar, but he was "our" guy. Miller was alleged to be an upgrade, and certainly didn't play like it. I think the team lacked confidence in his play and tried to over-compensate for the perceived lack. As such, I can say I blame the team for pulling the trigger, but Miller for sucking balls.

[gaijin]

I don't blame him, but I consider it a failed trade.

He was a "final piece" kinda trade and we didn't go any further with him than we would have without him. We got him to steal some games for us in the playoffs and he didn't do that. I don't blame Army for making the trade either. It just didn't work. Sometimes that happens and there doesn't have to be one person to blame. When you take a chance, sometimes it won't work. Just the nature of the beast.

But, in our 4 playoff losses, we scored 6 goals. I don't think he lived up to the hype in his short time here, but we lost to the Blackhawks as a team. He could have been better, but so could have the guys in front of him. It was a group effort. Blaming one person for that playoff loss is myopic.

I think cardsfan04 is spot on. Miller was supposed to be that last piece to put us over the top, so he was the focus of everyone's attention- he was going to be either the hero or the goat. He didn't play great, but he played better than Roman Turek. I'm not happy with his performance while he was here, but I don't blame him for our playoff elimination.

[Oaklandblue]

Oaklandblue Summons Statistics:

2013 Brian Elliott Played 6 Games, 2-4-1 GA:12 SV%:919 (Team scored 10 goals total)
2014 Ryan Miller Played 6 Games, 2-4-2, GA:19 SV%:.897 (Team scored 14 goals total)

If Ells played, we would have taken the series. Ryan Miller may not be THE ENTIRE reason, but his sub-par performance sank us. For all the crap Elliott get, you simply could not ask for a better netminder. The bottom line is, Elliott shows up and gets the team within a goal of winning some really nail-biting games while the team shows up for Miller and Miller uncharacteristically drops the ball in a way not seen since the days of Lalime.

So hell yes, I blame him.

[glen a richter]

I still don't get the boatloads of hate for Turek and I guess I never will. Exactly how many times has this team gotten past the 2nd round in the last almost 30 years? And which goalie was outdueling Patrick Roy that year? We blast Turek like he was (Franking) Bin Laden but we don't give even a fraction of the disgust for every other failed goalie this team has ever had. Honestly, worst job in the world is Blues goalie because unless you have a damn 0.00 gaa you'll be treated like you gave everyone in the country ebola or something.

[glen a richter]

Oaklandblue Summons Statistics:

2013 Brian Elliott Played 6 Games, 2-4-1 GA:12 SV%:919 (Team scored 10 goals total)
2014 Ryan Miller Played 6 Games, 2-4-2, GA:19 SV%:.897 (Team scored 14 goals total)

If Ells played, we would have taken the series. Ryan Miller may not be THE ENTIRE reason, but his sub-par performance sank us. For all the crap Elliott get, you simply could not ask for a better netminder. The bottom line is, Elliott shows up and gets the team within a goal of winning some really nail-biting games while the team shows up for Miller and Miller uncharacteristically drops the ball in a way not seen since the days of Lalime.

So hell yes, I blame him.

Comparing Elliott 2013 to hypothetical Elliott 2014 is wrongheaded. It's like Yankee fans who pump up how many world series titles they have. Well how many of those happened when your grandparents were in diapers? It bears no relevance to anything in the present day.

[Oaklandblue]

Oaklandblue Summons Statistics:

2013 Brian Elliott Played 6 Games, 2-4-1 GA:12 SV%:919 (Team scored 10 goals total)
2014 Ryan Miller Played 6 Games, 2-4-2, GA:19 SV%:.897 (Team scored 14 goals total)

If Ells played, we would have taken the series. Ryan Miller may not be THE ENTIRE reason, but his sub-par performance sank us. For all the crap Elliott get, you simply could not ask for a better netminder. The bottom line is, Elliott shows up and gets the team within a goal of winning some really nail-biting games while the team shows up for Miller and Miller uncharacteristically drops the ball in a way not seen since the days of Lalime.

So hell yes, I blame him.

Comparing Elliott 2013 to hypothetical Elliott 2014 is wrongheaded. It's like Yankee fans who pump up how many world series titles they have. Well how many of those happened when your grandparents were in diapers? It bears no relevance to anything in the present day.

Didn't we do the same with 2013 Ryan Miller?

[glen a richter]

Oaklandblue Summons Statistics:

2013 Brian Elliott Played 6 Games, 2-4-1 GA:12 SV%:919 (Team scored 10 goals total)
2014 Ryan Miller Played 6 Games, 2-4-2, GA:19 SV%:.897 (Team scored 14 goals total)

If Ells played, we would have taken the series. Ryan Miller may not be THE ENTIRE reason, but his sub-par performance sank us. For all the crap Elliott get, you simply could not ask for a better netminder. The bottom line is, Elliott shows up and gets the team within a goal of winning some really nail-biting games while the team shows up for Miller and Miller uncharacteristically drops the ball in a way not seen since the days of Lalime.

So hell yes, I blame him.

Comparing Elliott 2013 to hypothetical Elliott 2014 is wrongheaded. It's like Yankee fans who pump up how many world series titles they have. Well how many of those happened when your grandparents were in diapers? It bears no relevance to anything in the present day.

Didn't we do the same with 2013 Ryan Miller?

It's fair to say Miller should have been an upgrade, but it's entirely unfair to suggest that Elliott would have done better under similar circumstances. Who knows what would have happened? It's why I hate the WAR statistic in baseball. Just because a guy SHOULD do better than his potential replacement doesn't necessarily make it so, and just because the alternative MIGHT be better also doesn't make it so. You can't make the judgment of how Elliott would have done unless he actually played the games, and he didn't. So all we have to go on are facts: Miller didn't perform up to our inflated expectations, but neither did anyone else on the team. The offense fell flat, they didn't get angry enough after the Seabrook hit and they ultimately mailed it in.

[Oaklandblue]

Oaklandblue Summons Statistics:

2013 Brian Elliott Played 6 Games, 2-4-1 GA:12 SV%:919 (Team scored 10 goals total)
2014 Ryan Miller Played 6 Games, 2-4-2, GA:19 SV%:.897 (Team scored 14 goals total)

If Ells played, we would have taken the series. Ryan Miller may not be THE ENTIRE reason, but his sub-par performance sank us. For all the crap Elliott get, you simply could not ask for a better netminder. The bottom line is, Elliott shows up and gets the team within a goal of winning some really nail-biting games while the team shows up for Miller and Miller uncharacteristically drops the ball in a way not seen since the days of Lalime.

So hell yes, I blame him.

Comparing Elliott 2013 to hypothetical Elliott 2014 is wrongheaded. It's like Yankee fans who pump up how many world series titles they have. Well how many of those happened when your grandparents were in diapers? It bears no relevance to anything in the present day.

Didn't we do the same with 2013 Ryan Miller?

It's fair to say Miller should have been an upgrade, but it's entirely unfair to suggest that Elliott would have done better under similar circumstances. Who knows what would have happened? It's why I hate the WAR statistic in baseball. Just because a guy SHOULD do better than his potential replacement doesn't necessarily make it so, and just because the alternative MIGHT be better also doesn't make it so. You can't make the judgment of how Elliott would have done unless he actually played the games, and he didn't. So all we have to go on are facts: Miller didn't perform up to our inflated expectations, but neither did anyone else on the team. The offense fell flat, they didn't get angry enough after the Seabrook hit and they ultimately mailed it in.

The team scored four more goals in the playoffs last year than the year before that. That is substantial. We went from a netminder with a .919 GAA the year before to one with an .897, so just from that metric, which isn't iffy at all but a fact, our goaltending average went down a chunk of points where we trailed behind by a single goal in most games the year before, to one where we got more goal production but tanked between the pipes.

In both situations we lost, granted. But the title asks if Ryan Miller is worthy of a chunk of the blame and if the Offense is scoring more goals this year with a netminder on par with Halak and Miller's production is subpar, how can you not blame a great deal on this on him? The team scored, he didn't do his job and as much as we'd like to hang this entirely on the defense, the fact is that Miller let in so many soft goals while Elliott stood on his head the year before is ridiculous.

Notice how I am using statistics to prove a point. It's not my saying it's how this or that is, but how the team improved in the area we needed them to and the golden boy we got didn't show up.

We traded for Ryan Miller and somehow Ott and gave up Halak and a few others purely based on Miller's stats. I understand what you're saying and I agree to a point, but aren't all players signed on due to potential and performance from previous years? Didn't we sign Miller just because of that? Aren't players who are drafted in the top 10 show potential based on both their stats and their performance from the past year?

My biggest point in this, is that Miller mailed in his playoff performance and didn't play to his potential and he was definently the worst of the team in the playoffs. Offense came scoring. Defense looked ditzy, but they were hitting and hitting quite ofthen. Where was he? Sure, we could say that Elliott might have gotten slammed if he had to play the games Miller did, totally possible. Can easily happen. The thing is, had Miller come to play AND PLAYED and we still lost, there's not much anyone would say about that. Elliott, for all of his issues, comes to play and play his best every game he steps into, especially when he's worn the Note. I'd have liked to have seen as much from Miller, just because he's supposed to be a pro and instead he hung the team on a line. I don't see how he isn't blamed much more than the forum is placing on him.

Sorry, this is a particular sore spot for me, if you can't notice lol. I'm just happy that we signed Elliott and gave him the opportunity that he earned from, from the ground floor on. I think after all is said and done, it's a true testament to the guy who stayed the course and that what he has wasn't given to him like with Miller, but was instead earned and earned in the same way that we're seeing Jake Allen approaching things as we speak.

[cardsfan04]

Oaklandblue Summons Statistics:

2013 Brian Elliott Played 6 Games, 2-4-1 GA:12 SV%:919 (Team scored 10 goals total)
2014 Ryan Miller Played 6 Games, 2-4-2, GA:19 SV%:.897 (Team scored 14 goals total)

If Ells played, we would have taken the series. Ryan Miller may not be THE ENTIRE reason, but his sub-par performance sank us. For all the crap Elliott get, you simply could not ask for a better netminder. The bottom line is, Elliott shows up and gets the team within a goal of winning some really nail-biting games while the team shows up for Miller and Miller uncharacteristically drops the ball in a way not seen since the days of Lalime.

So hell yes, I blame him.

Comparing Elliott 2013 to hypothetical Elliott 2014 is wrongheaded. It's like Yankee fans who pump up how many world series titles they have. Well how many of those happened when your grandparents were in diapers? It bears no relevance to anything in the present day.

Didn't we do the same with 2013 Ryan Miller?

It's fair to say Miller should have been an upgrade, but it's entirely unfair to suggest that Elliott would have done better under similar circumstances. Who knows what would have happened? It's why I hate the WAR statistic in baseball. Just because a guy SHOULD do better than his potential replacement doesn't necessarily make it so, and just because the alternative MIGHT be better also doesn't make it so. You can't make the judgment of how Elliott would have done unless he actually played the games, and he didn't. So all we have to go on are facts: Miller didn't perform up to our inflated expectations, but neither did anyone else on the team. The offense fell flat, they didn't get angry enough after the Seabrook hit and they ultimately mailed it in.

The team scored four more goals in the playoffs last year than the year before that. That is substantial. We went from a netminder with a .919 GAA the year before to one with an .897, so just from that metric, which isn't iffy at all but a fact, our goaltending average went down a chunk of points where we trailed behind by a single goal in most games the year before, to one where we got more goal production but tanked between the pipes.

In both situations we lost, granted. But the title asks if Ryan Miller is worthy of a chunk of the blame and if the Offense is scoring more goals this year with a netminder on par with Halak and Miller's production is subpar, how can you not blame a great deal on this on him? The team scored, he didn't do his job and as much as we'd like to hang this entirely on the defense, the fact is that Miller let in so many soft goals while Elliott stood on his head the year before is ridiculous.

Notice how I am using statistics to prove a point. It's not my saying it's how this or that is, but how the team improved in the area we needed them to and the golden boy we got didn't show up.

We traded for Ryan Miller and somehow Ott and gave up Halak and a few others purely based on Miller's stats. I understand what you're saying and I agree to a point, but aren't all players signed on due to potential and performance from previous years? Didn't we sign Miller just because of that? Aren't players who are drafted in the top 10 show potential based on both their stats and their performance from the past year?

My biggest point in this, is that Miller mailed in his playoff performance and didn't play to his potential and he was definently the worst of the team in the playoffs. Offense came scoring. Defense looked ditzy, but they were hitting and hitting quite ofthen. Where was he? Sure, we could say that Elliott might have gotten slammed if he had to play the games Miller did, totally possible. Can easily happen. The thing is, had Miller come to play AND PLAYED and we still lost, there's not much anyone would say about that. Elliott, for all of his issues, comes to play and play his best every game he steps into, especially when he's worn the Note. I'd have liked to have seen as much from Miller, just because he's supposed to be a pro and instead he hung the team on a line. I don't see how he isn't blamed much more than the forum is placing on him.

Sorry, this is a particular sore spot for me, if you can't notice lol. I'm just happy that we signed Elliott and gave him the opportunity that he earned from, from the ground floor on. I think after all is said and done, it's a true testament to the guy who stayed the course and that what he has wasn't given to him like with Miller, but was instead earned and earned in the same way that we're seeing Jake Allen approaching things as we speak.

Couple of things stick out at me here.

1. Yes, I noticed how you used statistics, but I don't see how you proved your point with them. Elliott's numbers were better in 2013 vs the Kings than Miller's were against the Blackhawks. That much is fact. But, any further inference from that is nothing more than opinion. You can't say, "Well Elliott had a .919 in 2013, so he would have done that in 2014 too." It doesn't work that way. They were different games, different opponents, different seasons. There isn't a transitive property here. And, even if there was, I strongly suspect we could find other players who were worse in 2014 than 2013.

2. I think you're exaggerating the offense. Yeah, offense scored 14 goals in 2014 vs 10 in 2013 (not looking that up, just assuming that's accurate). But, 2 things with that. First, 14 goals in 6 games is not a lot. That's fairly lackluster. But, if you focus on the games we lost, we only scored 6 goals in 4 games. 1.5 goals per game isn't going to get you very far. I believe we lost 4-3 in OT for one of those games. I could get on board with blaming Miller for allowing 4 goals in a game. But, then there's the other 3 losses that we totaled 3 goals in. My point here isn't that Miller was great. He wasn't. It's that there's plenty of blame to pass around.

[dmiles2186]

I've got my own points, but to post Miller's numbers without mentioning that the defense was absolutely porous is a bit careless. Remember Toews' being so ignored he got on a breakaway in OT to win it? And on Kane's OT winner, Shattenkirk just kept backing in, backing in, backing in, screening Miller and not challenging Kane whatsoever? But yeah...RYAN MILLER SUCKS!

Here's a couple reasons why I don't blame Ryan Miller.

1) It was a tough situation as it is. Here is a guy that had played in the same system for a decade. He comes over here and the same media that is writing the 'Ryan Miller is on his way back, yo!' articles now were writing the 'Ryan Miller will bring the Blues a Cup!' articles back in March. Now, I do firmly believe Miller can mentally handle that. After all, he's proven he can carry teams for stretches. But something that's often overlooked is him only having 25 games, or whatever it was, to get familiar with the system and the players. To a guy that had been in a static situation for so long, I would have to think the adjustment was more difficult than the team and the player could have anticipated.

2) The injuries. Every team deals with them, yes. But for the first half of last year, we were eerily healthy. And then, late March and April comes, and the injury reports each game were almost comical. I can't remember the exact numbers, but the guys like Petro, Steen, Senko, Oshie, Backes, Morrow, and more all being out really threw a wrench into how the team was rolling. It was a tailspin, no doubt. And that wasn't Miller's fault at all.

3) Miller's numbers during the Chicago series are misleading. Was he great? No. Did he absolutely take over a game like we expected? No. But it was that 3rd period of Game 6, when the Blues...AS A TEAM...collapsed and just quit playing and gave up what felt like 127 goals in 20 minutes that his numbers really took a tumble. You want to compare 2013 Ells and 2014 Miller? They were about on par until the 3rd period of the final game of the series when the entire team quit.

4) Miller gave us a chance to win. We were in games. We went to OT 4 out of the 6 games, if I remember correctly. We lost 1-0 in a game where, yes, Miller gave up a bad goal to Toews, but our offense couldn't cash in on the numerous chances they had throughout that game. Corey Crawford stood on his head, but we hit posts, we missed wide open nets.

5) The team didn't have anyone aside from Tarasenko that stepped up. Toews, Kane, Sharp, Crawford...all the big names on the Hawks stepped up in key moments. Aside from Vlady, we had Steen in Game 1...and then he disappeared. No one stepped up and put the Blues over the top. The Hawks had that and that's why they took the series.

If you blame Miller, one guy on a team of 25, for all of that? I just can't agree with you.

[JesusNEVERexisted]

I don't blame Miller. The Blues took a 2-0 lead and then lost 4 straight!

The Blues collapsed as a team against the Hawks and Army and some of the players said that themselves!

[glen a richter]

I would agree that Miller was merely a small piece of a bigger puzzle that didn't fit together properly. To put such a large percentage of the responsibility on the goalie is oh so St. Louis Blues fan'ish though. Why don't we just bring back Curtis Joseph or Brent Johnson or Chris Mason? Any one of those guys could do just as bad in the playoffs but not be as reviled as guys like Turek or Miller were. Sometimes I forget this is a team game with the way the goalies get lambasted but everyone else* gets a pass, or at worst a gentle slap on the wrist.

* with the obvious exceptions of Berglund, Ott, and when they were here, Perron and Stewart. Query: If the Blues win the presidents trophy and go to the playoffs on a 10 game win streak and end up getting swept round one in 4 very low scoring games, will Elliott be blamed or will Tarasenko for not producing more goals? I know the answer and so does everyone else.

[drwoland]

Ffs team just put together a 7 game winning streak while dealing with a ton of injuries, our 22 year old phenom is all over national sports media, our goalies are playing great....

.... And the top thread on lgb is still a bunch of sour grapes about Ryan fn miller.

We don't need to win a cup, we wouldn't know what to do with it. What would we lament then?????

[glen a richter]

Ffs team just put together a 7 game winning streak while dealing with a ton of injuries, our 22 year old phenom is all over national sports media, our goalies are playing great....

.... And the top thread on lgb is still a bunch of sour grapes about Ryan fn miller.

We don't need to win a cup, we wouldn't know what to do with it. What would we lament then?????

That it took 20 games instead of 16 to win it?

[dmiles2186]

Ffs team just put together a 7 game winning streak while dealing with a ton of injuries, our 22 year old phenom is all over national sports media, our goalies are playing great....

.... And the top thread on lgb is still a bunch of sour grapes about Ryan fn miller.

We don't need to win a cup, we wouldn't know what to do with it. What would we lament then?????

Hey, we're talking the team up in the GDT's. I think it's a timely topic just because Miller is up near the top of the league in wins and other categories, and we've had time to process how the current Blues with Ells/Allen compare to the Blues of last year down the stretch with Miller/Ells.