UPDATED 9/27/14: Schwartz Signed

[STLADOGG]

Why isn't his guy signed yet.
Am I the only one freaking out about this?
I know he's a RFA and all, but come on training camp is right around the corner.

[ViPeRx007]

See: Alex Pietrangelo, signed contract extension September 13, 2013.

I'll start freaking out more if it gets to September 14, 2014 and he hasn't signed. Seriously though, they aren't going to let him go unless he's trying to get ridiculous money.

[dmiles2186]

Schwartz has no leverage. He got no offer sheets. Ball is all in the Blues' court. It will get signed and it will all be taken care of. Saw a tweet from JR today where someone asked and he said 'nothing is imminent' (or was told that), but how many times under Army have we heard something like that and then something goes down shortly thereafter? It's gon' happen.

[Oaklandblue]

I really don't see Jaden going anywhere. Fan favorite, solid player whose not even come close to peaking to their potential on a team going places. If I was a pessimist, I'd be worried about him taking a big money deal, pull a Boat and go play in the KHL. And I just don't see that happening.

I think Schartz's agent wants to make a statement by stalling since that'll pop up on news feeds more than anything else, make him look like he's doing his job and raise interest in Jaden, which is all his job. But Jaden and his agents hands are tied, so expect to see him in Blue, is my opinion.

[ecbm]

There's a bigger picture that gets lost. Dmiles-do you completely put the screws to everyone you negotiate with when they don't have the leverage? Even if you know you'll have to deal with them again in the future? Even if you're relying on them to perform at a high level to make an enterprise of yours work?

There are a few UFAs out there that are all waiting to see who will sign first and for what to set the market. Word is Johansen wants Stastny-like money from CBJ, right now. He won't get it but if his contract is better than, say, Subban's second deal then the market for these guys becomes more expensive. He has more leverage than Schwartz simply because CBJ doesn't enjoy the depth at C that the Blues do on the wing. It's a logical strategy for a guy like Schwartz to let a guy like Johansen sign first to see if that deal improves his leverage when he, as is rightly pointed out, has little of his own. I don't count the offer sheet as meaning much. The Blues, like Columbus, have made it clear they'll match any offer. Actually, teams in that position might want an offer to come in to get the process moving.

Yeah, I am freaking out just a little bit but I'm confident he'll sign. The question is whether, in the long term, the club will alienate another good young forward over nickels & dimes.

[dmiles2186]

There's a bigger picture that gets lost. Dmiles-do you completely put the screws to everyone you negotiate with when they don't have the leverage? Even if you know you'll have to deal with them again in the future? Even if you're relying on them to perform at a high level to make an enterprise of yours work?

There are a few UFAs out there that are all waiting to see who will sign first and for what to set the market. Word is Johansen wants Stastny-like money from CBJ, right now. He won't get it but if his contract is better than, say, Subban's second deal then the market for these guys becomes more expensive. He has more leverage than Schwartz simply because CBJ doesn't enjoy the depth at C that the Blues do on the wing. It's a logical strategy for a guy like Schwartz to let a guy like Johansen sign first to see if that deal improves his leverage when he, as is rightly pointed out, has little of his own. I don't count the offer sheet as meaning much. The Blues, like Columbus, have made it clear they'll match any offer. Actually, teams in that position might want an offer to come in to get the process moving.

Yeah, I am freaking out just a little bit but I'm confident he'll sign. The question is whether, in the long term, the club will alienate another good young forward over nickels & dimes.

I don't think they're at risk for alienating a young player at all. Petro got his deal, as previously mentioned. Polak's negotiations as an RFA took awhile and he still landed a 4 year contract (if I recall). I'm just going off of the history of this management regime and while they take awhile with their RFA's, they eventually get them signed.

[ViPeRx007]

Blues, Schwartz "significantly apart" on contract extension

I blame agents. They always go in with their guns blazing. I'm not super keen on the bridge contract idea but I guess it might make the most sense right now.

[cprice12]

Army pretty much assured folks shortly after the Stastny signing that Schwartz would be signed and ready to go for camp.
That's good enough for me.
If camp starts and he hasn't signed, then I'll start raising my eyebrows. Until then...no concerns.

[cardsfan04]

I'm also not concerned about this. I just don't see a plausible scenario in which he's not with the Blues this year. He doesn't have any leverage and Blues aren't letting him walk. He'll be back. Hell, I won't even be concerned on day 1 of training camp if he's not signed. A week into camp if nothing seems imminent, I'd be worried I guess.

Also, I don't think anybody is suggesting that the Blues should or would put the screws to him just because he doesn't have any leverage. He was the last player to put under contract because he doesn't have any leverage. They weren't going to miss out on Stastny to extend Schwartz. They'll give him a fair deal, but needed to see how the rest of the roster filled out before knowing what they had to work with. Others had a clock (and other teams) working against them. Schwartz doesn't. It would be bad business to screw Schwartz just because they think they can, and I would be shocked if that's what they are trying to do.

[crazyhorse]

Armstrong quote “All I know is we really like (Schwartz). He’s an outstanding young individual off the ice. We like the player that he’s shown so far. I expect him to be a Blue for a long time. I’m pretty sure he’ll be playing in a Blues’ uniform this year. I’m 100 percent comfortable he will be.”

But not 110%!

[ecbm]

On post above, I meant RFA, not UFA (though it seems nobody noticed the slip...).

I don't know. I'm not super worried but I don't find any solace in assuming this negotiation will go as others have in the past or in uncritically believing in Armstrong's statements-he is not the only decision maker involved in this.

As much as there are encouraging precedents in this FO's past, recently we lost a valuable player over what's reported as $300K. So I do worry a bit. A bridge contract seems likely. Justin Schultz just got $3.7M for one year. That range might be realistic.

[ViPeRx007]

Armstrong quote “All I know is we really like (Schwartz). He’s an outstanding young individual off the ice. We like the player that he’s shown so far. I expect him to be a Blue for a long time. I’m pretty sure he’ll be playing in a Blues’ uniform this year. I’m 100 percent comfortable he will be.”

But not 110%!

"pretty sure he'll be playing in a Blues' uniform this year" followed by "100 percent comfortable he will be".

Inconsistencies = LIES!

He's as good as gone.

[cardsfan04]

On post above, I meant RFA, not UFA (though it seems nobody noticed the slip...).

I don't know. I'm not super worried but I don't find any solace in assuming this negotiation will go as others have in the past or in uncritically believing in Armstrong's statements-he is not the only decision maker involved in this.

As much as there are encouraging precedents in this FO's past, recently we lost a valuable player over what's reported as $300K. So I do worry a bit. A bridge contract seems likely. Justin Schultz just got $3.7M for one year. That range might be realistic.

When you say you worry a bit, what are you worrying about? A holdout? Another team signing him to an offer sheet? Him bolting for the KHL? Part of the reason that I'm not worried at all really is that I think a holdout is the only possible thing that could go wrong and I just don't think that will happen. Is that the main concern?

[cprice12]

On post above, I meant RFA, not UFA (though it seems nobody noticed the slip...).

I don't know. I'm not super worried but I don't find any solace in assuming this negotiation will go as others have in the past or in uncritically believing in Armstrong's statements-he is not the only decision maker involved in this.

As much as there are encouraging precedents in this FO's past, recently we lost a valuable player over what's reported as $300K. So I do worry a bit. A bridge contract seems likely. Justin Schultz just got $3.7M for one year. That range might be realistic.

When you say you worry a bit, what are you worrying about? A holdout? Another team signing him to an offer sheet? Him bolting for the KHL? Part of the reason that I'm not worried at all really is that I think a holdout is the only possible thing that could go wrong and I just don't think that will happen. Is that the main concern?

I'm with ya.
Schwartz hasn't done enough to warrant holding out for a better contract. He'll get signed in the days leading up to camp, or at the very latest, a few days into camp. I'm 99.99% sure of that.

[gaijin]

On post above, I meant RFA, not UFA (though it seems nobody noticed the slip...).

I don't know. I'm not super worried but I don't find any solace in assuming this negotiation will go as others have in the past or in uncritically believing in Armstrong's statements-he is not the only decision maker involved in this.

As much as there are encouraging precedents in this FO's past, recently we lost a valuable player over what's reported as $300K. So I do worry a bit. A bridge contract seems likely. Justin Schultz just got $3.7M for one year. That range might be realistic.

When you say you worry a bit, what are you worrying about? A holdout? Another team signing him to an offer sheet? Him bolting for the KHL? Part of the reason that I'm not worried at all really is that I think a holdout is the only possible thing that could go wrong and I just don't think that will happen. Is that the main concern?

I'm with ya.
Schwartz hasn't done enough to warrant holding out for a better contract. He'll get signed in the days leading up to camp, or at the very latest, a few days into camp. I'm 99.99% sure of that.

With all the Blues organization has done for the Schwartz family over the years, it's a pretty poor showing of character if Jaden is holding out for top dollar. That said, I've never heard anything negative about his character, which leads me to believe that it's not a case of him demanding the most money (or at least not entirely).

[glen a richter]

As much as it was financially feasible, Schwartz and Vova are the only two forwards on the team that I wouldn't be against them giving a 6 or 7 year deal to. I hope the delay has more to do with getting a long term deal done rather than the inability to agree on money for what would amount to a one year contract.

[dmiles2186]

As much as it was financially feasible, Schwartz and Vova are the only two forwards on the team that I wouldn't be against them giving a 6 or 7 year deal to. I hope the delay has more to do with getting a long term deal done rather than the inability to agree on money for what would amount to a one year contract.

Totally agree with this. I get it, Schwartz wants to get paid. I mean, he was the 3rd leading scorer on the team last year (if I'm not mistaken), so he wants to get paid like that. Don't blame him. It's just that the Blues don't have to contend with the open market when it comes to setting his price range. Plus, I really don't see the Blues or Jaden letting this go past the deadline to sign RFA's. Correct me if I'm wrong, if they miss that, then Schwartz misses the whole year, right? Both player and team know that's not good for, well, the player or the team, so they'll get something done.

I see a bridge deal now and a long term later. Just like pretty much every Blues player that's come before him during Army's tenure.

[ViPeRx007]

Since I bought his jersey late last season:

1) he changed his number
2) the design changed
3) he's yet to sign a contract

I'm just waiting for him to change his last name before holding out for the year and then signing a long-term deal with LA/Chi next season. Might as well make this the worst jersey purchase in history.

[ecbm]

I see many here have bought pro sports leagues' line completely.

Owners make far, FAR, incomparably more money than do the players. So what looks like "holding out for top dollar" is really players doing what they can to maximize their disproportionately small slice of the revenue pie.

What I worry about is not Schwartz leaving-I'm confident he'll play for the Blues at some point this season. What I worry about is him deciding he's been messed around so much that he's determined to test free agency when the time comes regardless. Now if he is holding out for absurd money, sure, the Blues shouldn't budge. But again: they lost Sobotka and will be giving his minutes to an inferior player over $300K. If that keeps a front office from signing a player with Schwartz' upside especially after he's already given you a season of production at ridiculously-below-market rate, I'd say that's awfully dogmatic and stubborn of a FO that has won precisely nothing. And eventually, that sort of thing can affect a club's ability to sign players in general as a reputation for nickel-and-diming guys who have already contributed a lot at a club where you're not guaranteed to win anything will make it harder to get guys on board.

That said, Justin Schultz got $3.7M. Johansen is asking for Stastny money. That's where the market is. We'll see how this goes.

[cardsfan04]

I see many here have bought pro sports leagues' line completely.

Owners make far, FAR, incomparably more money than do the players. So what looks like "holding out for top dollar" is really players doing what they can to maximize their disproportionately small slice of the revenue pie.

What I worry about is not Schwartz leaving-I'm confident he'll play for the Blues at some point this season. What I worry about is him deciding he's been messed around so much that he's determined to test free agency when the time comes regardless. Now if he is holding out for absurd money, sure, the Blues shouldn't budge. But again: they lost Sobotka and will be giving his minutes to an inferior player over $300K. If that keeps a front office from signing a player with Schwartz' upside especially after he's already given you a season of production at ridiculously-below-market rate, I'd say that's awfully dogmatic and stubborn of a FO that has won precisely nothing. And eventually, that sort of thing can affect a club's ability to sign players in general as a reputation for nickel-and-diming guys who have already contributed a lot at a club where you're not guaranteed to win anything will make it harder to get guys on board.

That said, Justin Schultz got $3.7M. Johansen is asking for Stastny money. That's where the market is. We'll see how this goes.

I don't really follow the first line. This isn't about owner profitability. There's a salary cap and we're close to it. They have to operate within the salary cap even if they are profiting flevity-five billion dollars per year.

From a hypothetical standpoint, I agree with you that the Blues shouldn't nickel and dime him. That's bad business and, yes, reputations come from that. Given how much we just spent to go out and get Stastny, I have a hard time believing that we have a reputation for nickel and diming players and I don't think that's what is going on with Schwartz. I could go into a longer response about how I've never seen it before now, but I'll leave it at this. Every mention of it is from a "what if" standpoint, not a "I have evidence that they are doing this" standpoint.