We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by big d note »

I still like the Eric Staal idea. If we trade for or sign a big name player, it should be someone under 30 that will be with the team at least 5 years. This is still a very young team with a lot of growing to do. If we're going to spend a lot of money on a top scorer, they need to be here when the team has matured enough to be ready to make a serious Cup run. Until then, I'd be fine with a scrappy young team that makes the playoffs for a few years and gets that experience, then plug in that UFA scorer at the trade deadline as the final piece of the puzzle. Look at the additions that Detroit made over the years, when they took their core of homegrown talent and then added players like Hull, Shanahan, Hasek, etc. Our rebuilding process is still in the early stages. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and sacrifice the future in a futile attempt to just make the playoffs again.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by glen a richter »

Eric Staal has had one 100 point season, and comparatively, everything else has been quite pedestrian. At least when compared to the numbers put up by guys who are actually everyday offensive threats (Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk).

As much as you guys hate him, and it may just be because he's not a Blue -- we all know, and don't deny it, that if Crosby was a Blue, none of you would say any of the negative things you do about him, they should have put together a nice package centered around Boyes, a prospect and a pick to get Heatley.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by A-Yo! »

Yeah, I am the same way.

What's the big deal about Staal?

Now maybe Bobby Ryan or someone like that from the Kings (Frolik) or Phoenix.

I mean think about Camallari (sp) and Kessel, those are two young, fast scorers that could have helped the Blues.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by DaDitka »

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote: Why do you think that? It seems to me that Kovy will go to the highest bidder, and the best way to do that is to hit the UFA market.
I believe we had the same argument about Pronger last year.

Gaborik case was simple, the Wild honestly believed they could talk him into staying (or at least we're trying to save face with their fan base) and the rest of the league believe it was inevitable that he was going to New York and wouldn't sign an extension if they traded for him.

The Kovy deal has been in the works since the beginning of last season. I'm sure Atlanta already knows who is interested and I'm sure the interested clubs already know if he'll resign with them and for how much.

With the maximum contracts today, there are not any real bidding wars on the free agent market for top end guys. Dude will get the maximum in like a 12 year deal; he's going to get it no matter where he goes so the free agent market makes no difference to him.

It's completely different from baseball or football free agency as we know it.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by section319 »

Should have tried going after Hossa in the offseason, especially for the 6 mill Chicago signed him for.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by BoxCar »

It's kinda funny that people think we can trot out 12 scoring forwards every night. Gotta have some physical presence and defensive specialists. Of the players mentioned this is how id go:

Gone:
kariya, tkachuk (retire),brewer, 1 of crombeen or Winchester

keep: STEEN, Carlo, weaver (awesome as a 6-7th man), backes (srsly, doesn't need to reproduce last year every year to see he is a great fit).

I say brewer not because I think he is the worst. He just isn't good enough to be a top 3 that we need. He'll have good value to bring something back in trade.

also. Why is Derek Armstrong A) in the NHL. B) on the power play?
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

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BoxCar wrote:It's kinda funny that people think we can trot out 12 scoring forwards every night. Gotta have some physical presence and defensive specialists.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by goon attack »

I don't get the griping about certain people being on the power play. playing the power play is not that difficult. if you're unable to make the proper passes on the PP, you should not be in the NHL as far as I'm concerned.

One of the more easier things to grasp as far as I'm concerned. I'd try every single guy on the power play and see what happens. You'd be surprised what some of these non-first and second liners can do if given a chance.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by Krigloch the Furious »

get rid of Brewer, Jackman, Sydor, and Kariya.
I actually like Tkachuk

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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by philco_3 »

Krigloch the Furious wrote:get rid of Brewer, Jackman, Sydor, and Kariya.
I actually like Tkachuk
To be honest I would trade Tkachuk to a contender to give him his chance to win the cup.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by WaukeeBlues »

philco_3 wrote:
Krigloch the Furious wrote:get rid of Brewer, Jackman, Sydor, and Kariya.
I actually like Tkachuk
To be honest I would trade Tkachuk to a contender to give him his chance to win the cup.
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Even if it's for like a 5th rounder, it doesn't even matter at this point, give him a shot. We owe him that much.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by Krigloch the Furious »

that is true.
it would be nice to see him raising the cup.
but i dont want him traded just to be traded.
he can still play

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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by WaukeeBlues »

Definitely. My post was half humor. He's on pace for 20 goals again this year. I won't complain.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by Jackman5 »

A-Yo! wrote:Now we all know that the Blues need to make a trade. Who do they try and get and for who? I am still on the Brewer/Kariya/pick to the Lightning for Vinny C. With that being said, what trade do you think is best and FEASIBLE for the Blues.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by BoxCar »

goon attack wrote:I don't get the griping about certain people being on the power play. playing the power play is not that difficult. if you're unable to make the proper passes on the PP, you should not be in the NHL as far as I'm concerned.

One of the more easier things to grasp as far as I'm concerned. I'd try every single guy on the power play and see what happens. You'd be surprised what some of these non-first and second liners can do if given a chance.
Ok. I could see giving him a few shots, but there are plenty of more talented players to have on the power play and, more to my point, on the roster. I'm yet to see Armstrong offer anything that cam, crombeen, mcclement and others don't already do better. He has looked like a deer in the headlights when he is on the ice, like the game is going a little too fast for him.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by Wulfen »

Kariya is gone. Whether via trade at the deadline, which I can see a contender pick him up due to his playoff experience, or as a free agent after the season. No way he is here next year.
Carlo and Steen need to be resigned as they are both young guys with NHL level talents.
Brewer and Jackman need to only play 17-18 minutes a night but due to our lack of a true #1 dman they have to play elevated minutes and those exposing their weaknesses. Both are serviceable on the blue line in a 2nd or 3rd pairing.
A Tkachuk trade is solely on Walt. If he wants a shot at the cup the Blues will send him to a contender (hopefully a real one unlike Atlanta). If he is traded then this will be his last year. If not traded I believe there is a 50/50 chance he is back next season.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by JWatt (formerly PMS) »

DaDitka wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote: Why do you think that? It seems to me that Kovy will go to the highest bidder, and the best way to do that is to hit the UFA market.
I believe we had the same argument about Pronger last year.

Gaborik case was simple, the Wild honestly believed they could talk him into staying (or at least we're trying to save face with their fan base) and the rest of the league believe it was inevitable that he was going to New York and wouldn't sign an extension if they traded for him.

The Kovy deal has been in the works since the beginning of last season. I'm sure Atlanta already knows who is interested and I'm sure the interested clubs already know if he'll resign with them and for how much.

With the maximum contracts today, there are not any real bidding wars on the free agent market for top end guys. Dude will get the maximum in like a 12 year deal; he's going to get it no matter where he goes so the free agent market makes no difference to him.

It's completely different from baseball or football free agency as we know it.
One major difference. Pronger was NOT a pending UFA. He wasn't due to be a UFA until this offseason. Philly traded for him, and then they got raped extending him. Sure his cap hit is manageable. But if he doesn't keep playing until he's 50, his contract basically pays him $7.13MM/yr. No other team in their right mind was going to pay that much money for an aging defenseman who had showed marked decline the previous 2 seasons. Philly basically bid against themselves because they traded all that for him and felt they had to do whatever it took to keep him (see also: Cards, Holliday). Also, I'm sure Pronger was willing to sign because his play had been declining, and he probably would have gotten less if he waited a year and went to UFA. Look at what Bouwmeester got as a UFA this year. $6.68MM/yr for 5 years. Pronger wouldn't have done that well. Every GM in the league would rather have a 26 year-old Bouwmeester than a 36 year-old Pronger for the next 5 years.

So basically, if Kovy gets traded, he and his agent know they can rape the other team to the tune of $10+MM/yr because that team can't afford to let him walk for what they traded for him. I'd prefer the Blues not being the team that gets raped.

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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by DaDitka »

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote: So basically, if Kovy gets traded, he and his agent know they can rape the other team to the tune of $10+MM/yr because that team can't afford to let him walk for what they traded for him. I'd prefer the Blues not being the team that gets raped.

I can't and won't argue with that. I just don't think there is any chance he hits the open market.

But as to the cost of his deal, he's going to get the max the cap will allow for 10 - 12 year deal. There isn't really any discussion about it and whoever trades for him knows that going in to the deal.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by JWatt (formerly PMS) »

DaDitka wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote: So basically, if Kovy gets traded, he and his agent know they can rape the other team to the tune of $10+MM/yr because that team can't afford to let him walk for what they traded for him. I'd prefer the Blues not being the team that gets raped.

I can't and won't argue with that. I just don't think there is any chance he hits the open market.

But as to the cost of his deal, he's going to get the max the cap will allow for 10 - 12 year deal. There isn't really any discussion about it and whoever trades for him knows that going in to the deal.
That's the only way he doesn't hit the open market is if someone trades for him and gives him the max. However, how many big market teams willing to spend that kind of money have the cap space to do so? I don't think he'll get the max contract or anywhere near that much. The max contract I believe is 20% of the cap. The cap is currently $56.8MM. Is someone going to give Kovalchuk $11.36MM/yr for 10 years? What if the cap drops? How are you going to sign other players when someone is eating up 20% of the cap? Ovechkin makes $9.538MM/yr. Malkin and Crosby both make $8.7MM/yr. I doubt anyone pays Kovalchuk much more than those players because he's not better than those players.

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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by WaukeeBlues »

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:
DaDitka wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote: So basically, if Kovy gets traded, he and his agent know they can rape the other team to the tune of $10+MM/yr because that team can't afford to let him walk for what they traded for him. I'd prefer the Blues not being the team that gets raped.

I can't and won't argue with that. I just don't think there is any chance he hits the open market.

But as to the cost of his deal, he's going to get the max the cap will allow for 10 - 12 year deal. There isn't really any discussion about it and whoever trades for him knows that going in to the deal.
That's the only way he doesn't hit the open market is if someone trades for him and gives him the max. However, how many big market teams willing to spend that kind of money have the cap space to do so?
The only teams that got that kind of space are the ones that are rebuilding, i.e. the ones most unlikely to be acceptable destinations for Kovalchuk. He's already made it clear that if he IS going to leave Atlanta, it's going to a contender.
I don't think he'll get the max contract or anywhere near that much. The max contract I believe is 20% of the cap. The cap is currently $56.8MM. Is someone going to give Kovalchuk $11.36MM/yr for 10 years? What if the cap drops? How are you going to sign other players when someone is eating up 20% of the cap? Ovechkin makes $9.538MM/yr. Malkin and Crosby both make $8.7MM/yr. I doubt anyone pays Kovalchuk much more than those players because he's not better than those players.
I would say he could get something similar to what Hossa is getting, which is $7.9 I believe. Possibly lower cap hit depending on the deal.

Keep in mind, 12 year deals are not automatics, no matter how "common" they've become. Kane and Toews re-signed for $6ish a year for a set # of years. Not all players will slobber at the thought of a 15 year contract.
Wulfen wrote:Kariya is gone. Whether via trade at the deadline, which I can see a contender pick him up due to his playoff experience, or as a free agent after the season. No way he is here next year.
I think the Blues could get a LOT more from him than what some have been suggesting on the board. His heroics in the Finals against New Jersey was the stuff of legend. Granted that was the better part of a decade ago but he still has got substantial playoff experience and there is no substitute for it. I think the Blues can legitimately expect a first rounder for him at the deadline. Keep in mind we got one from Atlanta with Tkachuk, sans the playoff experience.
A Tkachuk trade is solely on Walt. If he wants a shot at the cup the Blues will send him to a contender (hopefully a real one unlike Atlanta). If he is traded then this will be his last year. If not traded I believe there is a 50/50 chance he is back next season.
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