We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by DaDitka »

WaukeeBlues wrote:
I don't think he'll get the max contract or anywhere near that much. The max contract I believe is 20% of the cap. The cap is currently $56.8MM. Is someone going to give Kovalchuk $11.36MM/yr for 10 years? What if the cap drops? How are you going to sign other players when someone is eating up 20% of the cap? Ovechkin makes $9.538MM/yr. Malkin and Crosby both make $8.7MM/yr. I doubt anyone pays Kovalchuk much more than those players because he's not better than those players.
I would say he could get something similar to what Hossa is getting, which is $7.9 I believe. Possibly lower cap hit depending on the deal.

Keep in mind, 12 year deals are not automatics, no matter how "common" they've become. Kane and Toews re-signed for $6ish a year for a set # of years. Not all players will slobber at the thought of a 15 year contract.

I generally agree here, but all of the national buzz seems to be that he’ll get to write his own check because how rare top end free agents are becoming.

The point about contenders not having room is quite valid (though just like in every other league there will guy that figure ways around it), however if he is going to have to ‘settle’ for less to play for a ‘contender’ he’s obviously not signing in St. Louis anyways.

I’d love nothing more then to wait for him to his the open market and sign him to a 5 year deal for around 8 mill a year. But, I’m also realistic.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by JWatt (formerly PMS) »

DaDitka wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
I don't think he'll get the max contract or anywhere near that much. The max contract I believe is 20% of the cap. The cap is currently $56.8MM. Is someone going to give Kovalchuk $11.36MM/yr for 10 years? What if the cap drops? How are you going to sign other players when someone is eating up 20% of the cap? Ovechkin makes $9.538MM/yr. Malkin and Crosby both make $8.7MM/yr. I doubt anyone pays Kovalchuk much more than those players because he's not better than those players.
I would say he could get something similar to what Hossa is getting, which is $7.9 I believe. Possibly lower cap hit depending on the deal.

Keep in mind, 12 year deals are not automatics, no matter how "common" they've become. Kane and Toews re-signed for $6ish a year for a set # of years. Not all players will slobber at the thought of a 15 year contract.

I generally agree here, but all of the national buzz seems to be that he’ll get to write his own check because how rare top end free agents are becoming.

The point about contenders not having room is quite valid (though just like in every other league there will guy that figure ways around it), however if he is going to have to ‘settle’ for less to play for a ‘contender’ he’s obviously not signing in St. Louis anyways.

I’d love nothing more then to wait for him to his the open market and sign him to a 5 year deal for around 8 mill a year. But, I’m also realistic.
It's one thing to squeeze a $7MM/yr contract down to a $5MM/yr cap hit for an older player, but it's quite another thing to try and squeeze in a $10MM/yr contract to a 26 year-old player. He'll either get top dollar for a rebuilding team with a lot of cap space, or he'll sign a Hossa like contract with a contender. If you want a look at what top free agents are getting, look at Hossa the past two seasons and Gaborik and Bouwmeester last year.

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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by philco_3 »

JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:
DaDitka wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
I don't think he'll get the max contract or anywhere near that much. The max contract I believe is 20% of the cap. The cap is currently $56.8MM. Is someone going to give Kovalchuk $11.36MM/yr for 10 years? What if the cap drops? How are you going to sign other players when someone is eating up 20% of the cap? Ovechkin makes $9.538MM/yr. Malkin and Crosby both make $8.7MM/yr. I doubt anyone pays Kovalchuk much more than those players because he's not better than those players.
I would say he could get something similar to what Hossa is getting, which is $7.9 I believe. Possibly lower cap hit depending on the deal.

Keep in mind, 12 year deals are not automatics, no matter how "common" they've become. Kane and Toews re-signed for $6ish a year for a set # of years. Not all players will slobber at the thought of a 15 year contract.

I generally agree here, but all of the national buzz seems to be that he’ll get to write his own check because how rare top end free agents are becoming.

The point about contenders not having room is quite valid (though just like in every other league there will guy that figure ways around it), however if he is going to have to ‘settle’ for less to play for a ‘contender’ he’s obviously not signing in St. Louis anyways.

I’d love nothing more then to wait for him to his the open market and sign him to a 5 year deal for around 8 mill a year. But, I’m also realistic.
It's one thing to squeeze a $7MM/yr contract down to a $5MM/yr cap hit for an older player, but it's quite another thing to try and squeeze in a $10MM/yr contract to a 26 year-old player. He'll either get top dollar for a rebuilding team with a lot of cap space, or he'll sign a Hossa like contract with a contender. If you want a look at what top free agents are getting, look at Hossa the past two seasons and Gaborik and Bouwmeester last year.
So your saying there's a chance.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by WaukeeBlues »

philco_3 wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:
DaDitka wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
I don't think he'll get the max contract or anywhere near that much. The max contract I believe is 20% of the cap. The cap is currently $56.8MM. Is someone going to give Kovalchuk $11.36MM/yr for 10 years? What if the cap drops? How are you going to sign other players when someone is eating up 20% of the cap? Ovechkin makes $9.538MM/yr. Malkin and Crosby both make $8.7MM/yr. I doubt anyone pays Kovalchuk much more than those players because he's not better than those players.
I would say he could get something similar to what Hossa is getting, which is $7.9 I believe. Possibly lower cap hit depending on the deal.

Keep in mind, 12 year deals are not automatics, no matter how "common" they've become. Kane and Toews re-signed for $6ish a year for a set # of years. Not all players will slobber at the thought of a 15 year contract.

I generally agree here, but all of the national buzz seems to be that he’ll get to write his own check because how rare top end free agents are becoming.

The point about contenders not having room is quite valid (though just like in every other league there will guy that figure ways around it), however if he is going to have to ‘settle’ for less to play for a ‘contender’ he’s obviously not signing in St. Louis anyways.

I’d love nothing more then to wait for him to his the open market and sign him to a 5 year deal for around 8 mill a year. But, I’m also realistic.
It's one thing to squeeze a $7MM/yr contract down to a $5MM/yr cap hit for an older player, but it's quite another thing to try and squeeze in a $10MM/yr contract to a 26 year-old player. He'll either get top dollar for a rebuilding team with a lot of cap space, or he'll sign a Hossa like contract with a contender. If you want a look at what top free agents are getting, look at Hossa the past two seasons and Gaborik and Bouwmeester last year.
So your saying there's a chance.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by Krigloch the Furious »

:lol:

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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by philco_3 »

WaukeeBlues wrote:
philco_3 wrote:
JWatt (formerly PMS) wrote:
DaDitka wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
I don't think he'll get the max contract or anywhere near that much. The max contract I believe is 20% of the cap. The cap is currently $56.8MM. Is someone going to give Kovalchuk $11.36MM/yr for 10 years? What if the cap drops? How are you going to sign other players when someone is eating up 20% of the cap? Ovechkin makes $9.538MM/yr. Malkin and Crosby both make $8.7MM/yr. I doubt anyone pays Kovalchuk much more than those players because he's not better than those players.
I would say he could get something similar to what Hossa is getting, which is $7.9 I believe. Possibly lower cap hit depending on the deal.

Keep in mind, 12 year deals are not automatics, no matter how "common" they've become. Kane and Toews re-signed for $6ish a year for a set # of years. Not all players will slobber at the thought of a 15 year contract.

I generally agree here, but all of the national buzz seems to be that he’ll get to write his own check because how rare top end free agents are becoming.

The point about contenders not having room is quite valid (though just like in every other league there will guy that figure ways around it), however if he is going to have to ‘settle’ for less to play for a ‘contender’ he’s obviously not signing in St. Louis anyways.

I’d love nothing more then to wait for him to his the open market and sign him to a 5 year deal for around 8 mill a year. But, I’m also realistic.
It's one thing to squeeze a $7MM/yr contract down to a $5MM/yr cap hit for an older player, but it's quite another thing to try and squeeze in a $10MM/yr contract to a 26 year-old player. He'll either get top dollar for a rebuilding team with a lot of cap space, or he'll sign a Hossa like contract with a contender. If you want a look at what top free agents are getting, look at Hossa the past two seasons and Gaborik and Bouwmeester last year.
So your saying there's a chance.
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More like one in a million.




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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by STLADOGG »

Just trade brewer kariya jackman tkachuk and have absouloutly no leadership.....stupid ass posts pisses me off when people act like tkachuk and kariya are just pieces of shit.....
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

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STLADOGG wrote:Just trade brewer kariya jackman tkachuk and have absouloutly no leadership.....stupid ass posts pisses me off when people act like tkachuk and kariya are just pieces of shit.....
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by philco_3 »

STLADOGG wrote:Just trade brewer kariya jackman tkachuk and have absouloutly no leadership.....stupid ass posts pisses me off when people act like tkachuk and kariya are just pieces of shit.....
No we are treating them like a piece of meat. Out of respect of Keith I say trade him to a cup contender team so he can have a chance to win one before he retires. And with Kariya I dont for see the Blues resigning him in the off season, so why not try to get a draft pick or a player for him.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by A-Yo! »

Definitely Keef with no teef getting traded to a contender, shoot do the same with Kariya. It's just time that the Blues totally understand that with Davis, the team can work the true youth movement then go forward. That being said, they do need a superstar or someone who can actually score and score regularly. It would be really hard to trade for Kov with the Thrashers being in the hunt still.

I will say this too, Brad Boyes has been a total disappointment this year. Granted others have as well but the guy has to start doing what he used to do which was score and score with some consistency. If not, put him along with Berglund and Brewer for a pick or at least a good young goalie. I think that is where the team needs to work on. We have two number two guys in the nets and I think championships are built from the goalie outward.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

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A-Yo! wrote:Definitely Keef with no teef getting traded to a contender, shoot do the same with Kariya. It's just time that the Blues totally understand that with Davis, the team can work the true youth movement then go forward. That being said, they do need a superstar or someone who can actually score and score regularly. It would be really hard to trade for Kov with the Thrashers being in the hunt still.

I will say this too, Brad Boyes has been a total disappointment this year. Granted others have as well but the guy has to start doing what he used to do which was score and score with some consistency. If not, put him along with Berglund and Brewer for a pick or at least a good young goalie. I think that is where the team needs to work on. We have two number two guys in the nets and I think championships are built from the goalie outward.
Respectfully disagree here.

First of all, this team is full of disappointments, Boyes included. Nobody has scored with anything approaching consistency. Walt is probably the closest and at an average of one goal every three games, that's not the average we're looking for. Having said that, Boyes IS leading the team in points. Granted we don't want him to be leading the team because he's got a ton of assists but on a team full of nobody scoring, it's not really a panic button moment when one of the brightest young guys on your team has a bad year. I will readily admit he's been basically invisible this year. He's always been quiet though and I guess I would wait. Boyes, IMO is PART of that youth movement we're trying to cultivate, not a direct problem in advancing it. I'm thinking long term here.

Kariya- Absolutely some team will bite at the deadline and I think there's no reason we can't get a first rounder out of him. Playoff experience heroics on his resume and ability (as many players with less skill in the past have) to turn a bad year around with a fresh start on a playoff contender.

Tkachuk- It's getting to the point that any return we'd get for him at the deadline would be marginal anyway. I'd leave it up to him entirely. He's earned it.

Berglund- Again, no panic button needed. Patience.

Young goalie- Again I gotta disagree. How many times has a goalie shown brighter than the sun during the playoffs only to suck a fatty the next season? More to the point, you don't see teams trading assets to try to get "that goalie" for the playoff run, there's WAY too many variables there and usually they don't play out in your favor. "That goalie" for the playoff run is usually drafted or emerges from a backup position and takes the team on their back on an insane hot streak. To the extent you can go out and "get" that one experienced, consistent scorer, it's far more a gamble to go out and try to acquire the goalie that is going to become a man ablaze for your team at exactly the right time.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

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This entire team (sans Alex Steen and Roman Polak) has been a colossal disappointment! All the talent and promise flashed in the 2nd half of last year has completely disapeared. Trading away the aging spare parts we have won't yield as much as some of you might think. Sure, Kariya might fetch a 2nd round pick on deadline day, but don't expect much beyond that.

But I also don't think it would be prudent to blow the whole thing up and trade away the younger guys. I think I could stomach a Brad Boyes trade but if team is going to succeed moving forward guys like Backes and Oshie need to remain on the roster. I'd really hate to see us give up on Bergy because of the promise he showed last year. I think he's just got a case of Murray-itis and it might take an off-season to cure it.

But the one thing this team desperately needs is an offensive catalyst. They need a guy they can throw on the wing with McDonald that's going to put up 40-50 goals a year on a consistent basis and he's no where to be found within our farm system. I know we all thought Brad Boyes was that guy but let's be honest, the guy can't hit the broad side of a barn if his life depended on it. I think Perron has the potential to be a 40 goal scorer, but the guy only knows how to play as an individual.

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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

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If you want to trade Walt we have to make sure the other team has a good dental plan.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

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thedoc wrote:If you want to trade Walt we have to make sure the other team has a good dental plan.
Dental Plan...Lisa needs braces...
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

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strocklen083 wrote:This entire team (sans Alex Steen and Roman Polak) has been a colossal disappointment! All the talent and promise flashed in the 2nd half of last year has completely disapeared. Trading away the aging spare parts we have won't yield as much as some of you might think. Sure, Kariya might fetch a 2nd round pick on deadline day, but don't expect much beyond that.

But I also don't think it would be prudent to blow the whole thing up and trade away the younger guys. I think I could stomach a Brad Boyes trade but if team is going to succeed moving forward guys like Backes and Oshie need to remain on the roster. I'd really hate to see us give up on Bergy because of the promise he showed last year. I think he's just got a case of Murray-itis and it might take an off-season to cure it.

But the one thing this team desperately needs is an offensive catalyst. They need a guy they can throw on the wing with McDonald that's going to put up 40-50 goals a year on a consistent basis and he's no where to be found within our farm system. I know we all thought Brad Boyes was that guy but let's be honest, the guy can't hit the broad side of a barn if his life depended on it. I think Perron has the potential to be a 40 goal scorer, but the guy only knows how to play as an individual.
Well, this team was a colossal disappointment under Murray this season. But under Payne this team is playing a lot more like we thought they would. I'm a lot more optimistic about their chances of finishing the season strong and making the playoffs than I was a few weeks ago. The team looks much better, aside from the game against Columbus.

No way in hell you blow this team up. Maybe make a trade at the deadline to improve the team long term, but nothing major unless a great deal falls in your lap. What we want to do is sign a big goal scorer this offseason as a free agent. That is an absolute must. They should have cap room.

And you are right...Boyes isn't the goal scorer we thought he was going to be. What the hell happened to him? If he was that 40+ goal guy, we wouldn't have to go looking for one in the offseason and could look to improve elsewhere.
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Re: We all know it needs to happen...Who gets traded first?

Post by A-Yo! »

Good posts guys!

I guess it is a case of Murray hangover and once that is over maybe some things can change.

I appreciate the perspective about a young goalie but how many "young goalies" have the Blues had to be promised about and then have them go poof!

I am still on the fence about Boyes. I know that scorers can be hot and cold but come on guys, leading in assists? Really? I mean REALLY?!?! And I totally agree with having AMac on a wing with TSTBNL (the scorer to be named later). Give this guy some space and by the way excellent recognition/communication pass from Kariya!

And is it me or are we witnessing a resurgence of Winchester? I mean he is skating with some purpose and is trucking cats out there! It's good to see!

Sheldon Souray...I just saw on OTF this morning that the Oil could part with this guy. Can we give them Brewer back in trade? LOL All kidding aside, this guy would definitely be an upgrade especially if they could find someone to take Jackman's contract as well. The only concern is that any additions to defense could hold back a youngster's progression on the big club...
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