GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMOX

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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by Robb_K »

crazyhorse wrote:Here's a unique idea for the Blues....don't wait for the 2nd period to play with some quality effort.
They arrived in Chicago at 4:00 AM. I'd bet that most of them got no sleep or maybe only a catnap. I've played some night games after a night of no sleep. In the 1st period I was listless and didn't have my skating legs (a step slow). For whatever reason, usually by the beginning of The 2nd Period, I was back to normal. I think that was what happened to The Blues.
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by crazyhorse »

Robb_K wrote:
crazyhorse wrote:Here's a unique idea for the Blues....don't wait for the 2nd period to play with some quality effort.
They arrived in Chicago at 4:00 AM. I'd bet that most of them got no sleep or maybe only a catnap. I've played some night games after a night of no sleep. In the 1st period I was listless and didn't have my skating legs (a step slow). For whatever reason, usually by the beginning of The 2nd Period, I was back to normal. I think that was what happened to The Blues.
Might just be my opinion. But seems like every game, they have had a sluggish start?
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by theohall »

Oaklandblue wrote:Trade Brian Elliott? Why not just let him start, Allen backup and leave the position alone? Allen isn't ready, Elliott is the only starter you're got of good quality for what he's being paid. His past record >>while in Blue<< speaks for itself, how do you not just run with this guy and if Allen suddenly catches fire, go with the hot hand?

None of the netminders in the minors are really ready enough to transition to the NHL and what we can get for what we'd trade off for a netminder, we'd do better to just keep what we got. If you're going to trade the position, make sure what we get in return is an improvement for it. Jake is not ready to be a full-on starter or he'd be the starter already. Let's not rush this.

Elliott + Gunnar is not going to get yall as much as you think.
Because Elliott has really bad nights too... like this game. Allen saved that game by relieving Elliott. Had Elliott stayed in goal in the 2nd and 3rd, the Blues lose 10-whatever. Yes, Elliott's overall record is very good with the Blues. Allen's is pretty darn good, too. The issue - when Elliott plays poorly, he tends to play poorly over longer periods of time than Allen. Allen seems more capable of recovering from bad games quickly. Of course, was Elliott hurt in this game? I don't know, but if so it does impact things.
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by cardsfan04 »

Oaklandblue wrote:Trade Brian Elliott? Why not just let him start, Allen backup and leave the position alone? Allen isn't ready, Elliott is the only starter you're got of good quality for what he's being paid. His past record >>while in Blue<< speaks for itself, how do you not just run with this guy and if Allen suddenly catches fire, go with the hot hand?

None of the netminders in the minors are really ready enough to transition to the NHL and what we can get for what we'd trade off for a netminder, we'd do better to just keep what we got. If you're going to trade the position, make sure what we get in return is an improvement for it. Jake is not ready to be a full-on starter or he'd be the starter already. Let's not rush this.

Elliott + Gunnar is not going to get yall as much as you think.
I actually think that Allen is ready. I think he should be our number 1 the rest of the way. I'm not sure on trading Elliott though. As soon as we trade Elliott, Allen is going to get hurt and we're screwed for the playoffs.
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by Fradi »

Hard to decide based on this year so far, but i believe Allen has shown he is ready, you can see how he plays with more confidence now, finally has actual presence in goal, which he didn't have last year. And i still think its better for everyone to just pick one clear starter and go with him. I like Elliott, he's a good goalie, but can't prove on the long term that its still his team anymore. And that's also why he would need to be traded as there are teams where he could be the unquestionable starter. Only problem is that we'd need to sign a backup then, the youngsters are not ready, although i haven't seen Copley yet.
Asking those who have, how ready /good is he?
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by Oaklandblue »

Fradi wrote:Hard to decide based on this year so far, but i believe Allen has shown he is ready, you can see how he plays with more confidence now, finally has actual presence in goal, which he didn't have last year. And i still think its better for everyone to just pick one clear starter and go with him. I like Elliott, he's a good goalie, but can't prove on the long term that its still his team anymore. And that's also why he would need to be traded as there are teams where he could be the unquestionable starter. Only problem is that we'd need to sign a backup then, the youngsters are not ready, although i haven't seen Copley yet.
Asking those who have, how ready /good is he?
If anyone gets the call from down below, I figure it'd be Husso and then Bings and they're quite good at the level they're playing at. Copley has aways to go before he'd be considered, I figure.

As for thinking Allen is ready to start, I believe that Elliott = Allen. Remember when we got Ells and what we said about him? Look at Allen and think about that. Ignore stats, look at style, confidence, etc. Same goalie out there. What jacked up Ells is how he has been mismanaged by this organization to the nth degree and the fact he hasn't asked for a trade says alot about the guy. Hell, we traded Ryan Miller in to play -in front- of him. After awhile that stuff gets old and if we don't want Ells, I wish we would at least have the character to trade him, not to treat him as he has been.

As for the stats, it's only been <10 games. Alot can happen from there. Allen's sample size is small for a netminder and I am not one of the faithful who, from what I've seen from him when it matters, to place him above Elliott. For all the trade hype I've read around about ditching Ells because he's having a slumpish season atm, for Allen, winning a crazy Hawks game is wonderful. Giving up 5 goals isn't. I'm not saying that to blame him for anything, there's nothing to blame, we DID WIN, I just don't think he's ready yet. What does he need to prove? That's easy - he needs to be able to carry the team on his back when necessary and I have seen glimpses of it, but I've seen him fall apart when we need him at times, just like Elliott.

In short, we trade, we trade for a starter or not at all. Elliott isn't going to get back anything serviceable in a trade that we can't call up from Chicago.

We're winning and rolling along, let's leave this alone. Elliott's GAA sucks right now, but he's undefeated. Allen's is really good, yet he's lost a few games. In total we're what, third in the league in overall standings? LEAVE THEM ALONE and let's get this team healthy.
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by theohall »

Oaklandblue wrote:If anyone gets the call from down below, I figure it'd be Husso and then Bings and they're quite good at the level they're playing at. Copley has aways to go before he'd be considered, I figure.
Husso is still in Finland. Not gonna get called up from there any time soon. Copley was the readiest of the other goalies through training camp based on playing NHL level players.
Oaklandblue wrote:Giving up 5 goals isn't. I'm not saying that to blame him for anything, there's nothing to blame, we DID WIN, I just don't think he's ready yet. What does he need to prove? That's easy - he needs to be able to carry the team on his back when necessary and I have seen glimpses of it, but I've seen him fall apart when we need him at times, just like Elliott.
Ummm..... Elliott gave up 4 goals to the Blackhawks in less than one period of play while Allen only gave up 1 in the first period in relief and stopped every shot after that - many were quality chances. Might want to re-think that last paragraph if you are thinking Allen gave up 5 goals - which he did not. Allen was the goaltender carrying the team to let them #roarbacon to win.
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by cprice12 »

Trading Elliott doesn't make any sense if the idea is to then trade for a veteran goalie to replace him. Elliott is a veteran goalie who is probably better than anything else we could get.
The only real way I see Elliott being traded is if, at the deadline, Allen has proven all season that he is the #1 guy that can be trusted in the playoffs. If that is the case, they could move Elliott for some depth (or a need based on our injury situation at the time) and then sign or acquire a cheap veteran goalie. They could move him to free up a little salary if they need to do so.
But if we are 100% healthy and playing as well as we all think this team can play going into the playoffs, I don't see Elliott being moved. He is a great safety net to have if Allen gets hurt...assuming Allen is the #1 guy come playoff time...which it looks like it is going that way.
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by Kerfuffle »

Eh - this game was a fluke. Elliott is not as bad as he played in that game and neither is Crawford. I wouldn't throw Elliott out with the bathroom sink after this one game although I can see some of the posts here are pretty tough on him. Yes I get it - he stunk - and so did Crawford. And the hawks had a lot of lucky bounces in the first period. And Queneville's continued experiment to treat the early regular season as an extended training camp for kids didn't help either. Bottom line - I didn't think this game was an indicator of how either team normally plays but rather this was one of those weird head scratchers that you just say 'oh well' and move on from.

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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by cprice12 »

Kerfuffle wrote:Eh - this game was a fluke. Elliott is not as bad as he played in that game and neither is Crawford. I wouldn't throw Elliott out with the bathroom sink after this one game although I can see some of the posts here are pretty tough on him. Yes I get it - he stunk - and so did Crawford. And the hawks had a lot of lucky bounces in the first period. And Queneville's continued experiment to treat the early regular season as an extended training camp for kids didn't help either. Bottom line - I didn't think this game was an indicator of how either team normally plays but rather this was one of those weird head scratchers that you just say 'oh well' and move on from.
I don't know if anyone is being THAT down on Elliott...it's just that there is an "audition" for the #1 goalie job right now and Hitch said he wants a #1 set in place soon...so this (along with his play in the previous 3 or 4 games) kind of solidified Allen as the frontrunner for that job...and then with his game vs. Nashville, I think it's his the rest of the way unless of course he really starts to slump.

And I disagree with you about this game sucking. It was pretty fantastically exciting game...even though both starting goalies weren't very good. This was the birth of #RoarBacon you know. :wink:
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by Kerfuffle »

cprice12 wrote: I don't know if anyone is being THAT down on Elliott...it's just that there is an "audition" for the #1 goalie job right now and Hitch said he wants a #1 set in place soon...so this (along with his play in the previous 3 or 4 games) kind of solidified Allen as the frontrunner for that job...and then with his game vs. Nashville, I think it's his the rest of the way unless of course he really starts to slump.

And I disagree with you about this game sucking. It was pretty fantastically exciting game...even though both starting goalies weren't very good. This was the birth of #RoarBacon you know. :wink:
Both goalies were awful, defense on both teams didn't show up. Just wasn't a clean hockey game that I wanted to see from 2 really good teams. It was a question of who was going to mess up more than the other. I turned it off after the second period.

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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by theohall »

Kerfuffle wrote:
cprice12 wrote: I don't know if anyone is being THAT down on Elliott...it's just that there is an "audition" for the #1 goalie job right now and Hitch said he wants a #1 set in place soon...so this (along with his play in the previous 3 or 4 games) kind of solidified Allen as the frontrunner for that job...and then with his game vs. Nashville, I think it's his the rest of the way unless of course he really starts to slump.

And I disagree with you about this game sucking. It was pretty fantastically exciting game...even though both starting goalies weren't very good. This was the birth of #RoarBacon you know. :wink:
Both goalies were awful, defense on both teams didn't show up. Just wasn't a clean hockey game that I wanted to see from 2 really good teams. It was a question of who was going to mess up more than the other. I turned it off after the second period.
There were 3 goalies in this game and the 3rd one played lights out with all of the opportunities the Hawks generated in the 2nd and 3rd period while getting shut out by that 3rd goaltender. Almost 30 shots in 2 periods and the Hawks got nothing from it, in spite of some outstanding chances.
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Re: GDT #13: 11/4/15 | 7:00PM CST | @ Blackhawks | NBCSN/KMO

Post by ecbm »

theohall wrote:
Kerfuffle wrote:
cprice12 wrote: I don't know if anyone is being THAT down on Elliott...it's just that there is an "audition" for the #1 goalie job right now and Hitch said he wants a #1 set in place soon...so this (along with his play in the previous 3 or 4 games) kind of solidified Allen as the frontrunner for that job...and then with his game vs. Nashville, I think it's his the rest of the way unless of course he really starts to slump.

And I disagree with you about this game sucking. It was pretty fantastically exciting game...even though both starting goalies weren't very good. This was the birth of #RoarBacon you know. :wink:
Both goalies were awful, defense on both teams didn't show up. Just wasn't a clean hockey game that I wanted to see from 2 really good teams. It was a question of who was going to mess up more than the other. I turned it off after the second period.
There were 3 goalies in this game and the 3rd one played lights out with all of the opportunities the Hawks generated in the 2nd and 3rd period while getting shut out by that 3rd goaltender. Almost 30 shots in 2 periods and the Hawks got nothing from it, in spite of some outstanding chances.
Exactly. It was fluky in that both starters played TERRIBLE. And I mean terrible. I'll spot Elliott the turnover goal and the penalty shot (though he didn't look good against it) but the other two were just really, really soft. I'd be pissed at myself for letting in Seabrook's goal at a Sunday morning pickup.

That is why I prefer Allen (along with him having more a future with the Blues): his flaws seem like things that can be coached out of him. Note how much better he's been about challenging shooters at the top of the crease after Hitch mentioned it after a game. Elliott just seems to lose concentration occasionally and, yes, has a track record of streaks of poor play longer than anything we've seen from Allen. And at his age, what you see is what you get. To me, Allen is the #1 right now and I think Hitch knows it. He's not going to sit a guy in this sort of form.

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