Blues sign krug, 7 years, $45.5m

[theohall]

1) Teams don't trade RHD without getting something significant back or they have a salary issue

2) ROR has to be the Captain. I don't care if it's only been 2 years. He's the definitive Captain-type player.

[theohall]

Just some craziness while doing research on RHD

Last season, the Rangers had 2 RHD who were top 10 in point producing when only counting RHD - Anthony DeAngelo (#2) and Adam Fox (#8) - both very young defenseman. Watch out for the Rangers in the near future with that kind of production coming half of a young back end.

Pietrangelo was 3rd - behind the 4th year player DeAngelo who was playing his 2nd full season.

What happens when Parayko gets the ice time Pietrangelo had with the same guys in front of him. I know, #55 got a ton of ice time, but he also took more d-zone faceoffs because Petro got the offensive zone opportunities when the coach could force it.

Trying to find a positive in this.... even if it's reaching.

As to the RHD thing - the research is on-going, but teams don't let them go or trade them unless there are cap issues or the player has some sort of issue (whether it be on-ice or off-ice) which raises the red flags with Faulk. IMO, Carolina traded him for cap reasons, but they may have had more data about the turnover thing we saw this season.

As to Krug - Boston took a HUGE gamble not re-signing Krug when they could have afforded the contract. They are expecting McAvoy - a RHD - to be as effective on their PP as their top PP defensive producer, Krug, who was a left shot. Given that righties pass different than lefties and their PP forwards aren't likely changing, that might be an issue for the Bruins. Same should be said with the Blues with Krug likely being the #1 PP D and the Blues used to having Pietrangelo be that guy.

aside - IMO - When Tarasenko comes back, he'd better be on the R F'ing side of the ice on the PP with a LD as the PP point guy.

[theohall]

Just to point something out.....

These are the teams who had 2 RHD in the top 75 in Points last regular season. You can tell me how relevant this is when you read the team list. The list is in order by points for their highest scoring RD.

1) NYR (they actually had 3 in the Top 75 - DeAngelo, Fox, and Trouba) - what playoffs?
2) STL - Petro and Parayko - knocked out in 1st round of playoffs
3) SJS - what playoffs?
4) PIT - what playoffs? - knocked out in 3 of 5 round by Montreal - not even a "real" 1st round series
5) MTL - Beat the Penguins in the fake 3 of 5 round, but knocked out in real 1st round by Philly.
6) LAK - what playoffs?
7) MIN - what playoffs? (knocked out in 3 of 5 round by Vancouver - not even a "real" first round series)
NJD - what playoffs?

While having one good one appears to be important. More than one doesn't appear to be that important. Granted - this is severely limited data, but that's the pattern from this season.

A full regular season followed by normal playoffs might make a difference, but the short indication is having more than one good to great RHD isn't a guarantee of playoff success. (based on limited data - need way more time to dig deeper.)

[WaukeeBlues]

No way would the Blues ever sign someone (or I should say Armstrong) to the deal Petro signed with Vegas. Have you seen the signing bonuses for years 3 thru 6? 7M, 8M, 8M and 6M. That's not how the Blues do business or ever have. That contract is on Petro and his agent demanding the signing bonus thing - almost like Tavares got.

Look at Krug's contract. ZERO signing bonuses. Heck, go through all the Blues defenseman.

Pietrangelo wanting a heavy signing bonus deal is why Armstrong immediately signed someone else. Petro and his agent's demands were unrealistic to the Blues contract structure - which he had to know - given he's been here so damn long.

That can all be true and also a foolish organizational stance all at the same time. If that's truly where Armstrong and Stillman are at (and we have every reason to believe that with a player of Petro's caliber that Stillman was on board with Army every step of the way), then you better be prepared to NEVER sign an elite player. Ever.

That's not hyperbole. If you want to own the team and do what you want: your prerogative. Just be prepared to never, ever sign an elite player to a UFA deal, no matter who they are. We just lost one.

The reality is that the current marketplace provides elite players like Pietrangelo the full NMC and massive signing bonus money. They just do. You can sit there and suck your thumb and say "well WE'RE not going to do that!" Fine. You better trade any truly top-end player you ever have before UFA then because they're never going to sign with you.

You take yourself out of the marketplace for truly top tier talent unless you acquire it with term left (ROR). It's that simple.

[WaukeeBlues]

^^ Closely tied to that, assuming that Parayko keeps improving and becomes a top talent, Blues better trade him before UFA. He's gone.

ROR might be gone too when his term is up. Tarasenko too if he gets healthy. Those are the top guys I guess.

It's a stupid, antiquated, stubborn stance to sit there and say "Well we just don't do NMC or signing bonus money." Your team, do what you want, I hope you enjoy watching your top players leaving as soon as they get the chance. Repeatedly.

[theohall]

It might be a financial constraint of the organization where they can't afford to pay out huge chunks of money at once in the summer. I don't know, but it is a possibility.

[WaukeeBlues]

It might be a financial constraint of the organization where they can't afford to pay out huge chunks of money at once in the summer. I don't know, but it is a possibility.

I get that, and I'm sure for financial planning purposes having ROR's millions coming out every July isn't ideal.

But, again, what type of organization are you running as an NHL owner? It's your team, that's fine! But like I said, just be aware that there are other owners who will pay that out if you won't. So you're not going to get the tippidy-top players either (1) retained when they hit UFA or (2) outside signed as UFA. You just won't. I guess that's where the Blues are. So guys like Schenn (above average/very good top 6 player, not "elite") are about the highest talent you're going to get to re-sign with you. Likely.

And maybe Armstrong knew this all along and that's why the Faulk trade happened.

I also wonder if Petro was represented by literally any other agency if he's still with the Blues.

[glen a richter]

At this point the only positive I can see is that maybe Army takes advantage of the LTIR and the fact that there's a bunch of LHD who are so far down the depth chart now that they'll be better used as trade bait to get some more offense.

[theohall]

Finances has always been an issue for St Louis teams. While Stillman is the Majority shareholder, there are 14 minority owners, so it's not one owner ponying up money every July to pay someone all at once. It's the group figuring out a way to make it work. Armstrong was effusive in his praise for Stillman making the ROR trade happen, which would not without ownership approval.

I don't see the Blues group affording 14M every July. IMO, it was an unrealistic ask of Pietrangelo who has to know at least something about the Blues financially - or he just listened to his agent whose one of the primary agents pushing the signing bonus type deals.

Being a Blues fan means accepting the ownership group isn't a "deep pockets" group like Toronto or the Rangers. They just can't afford paying massive signing bonuses, given them being "in the black" usually means having gate from getting to at least Round 2 of the playoffs. No gate - no dineros for signing bonuses. And there wasn't any gate from even being in the 1st round this year. Who knows how much gate there will be, if any at all, for the current season. The ownership group had to have had a say in this and knew their limits. Without the pandemic BS, the Blues probably could have afforded the 9M contract - minus making it large signing bonus heavy - for Petro - and he'd probably have signed it.

Agents and players ignoring the reality of current team financial situations throughout the league seems stupid to me. But that's me.

[WaukeeBlues]

Finances has always been an issue for St Louis teams. While Stillman is the Majority shareholder, there are 14 minority owners, so it's not one owner ponying up money every July to pay someone all at once. It's the group figuring out a way to make it work. Armstrong was effusive in his praise for Stillman making the ROR trade happen, which would not without ownership approval.

I don't see the Blues group affording 14M every July. IMO, it was an unrealistic ask of Pietrangelo who has to know at least something about the Blues financially - or he just listened to his agent whose one of the primary agents pushing the signing bonus type deals.

Being a Blues fan means accepting the ownership group isn't a "deep pockets" group like Toronto or the Rangers. They just can't afford paying massive signing bonuses, given them being "in the black" usually means having gate from getting to at least Round 2 of the playoffs. No gate - no dineros for signing bonuses. And there wasn't any gate from even being in the 1st round this year. Who knows how much gate there will be, if any at all, for the current season. The ownership group had to have had a say in this and knew their limits. Without the pandemic BS, the Blues probably could have afforded the 9M contract - minus making it large signing bonus heavy - for Petro - and he'd probably have signed it.

Agents and players ignoring the reality of current team financial situations throughout the league seems stupid to me. But that's me.

Good points all around. It's clear in hindsight that the full NMC and big signing bonus money were non-negotiables for Petro. Clearly he got that in the open market so it's a fair request. But I wonder how much of that was from Newport selling it to Petro and he adopting it or more Petro just giving Newport the keys to the car and that's where it ended. Everything I heard sounds like Petro wouldn't come off those things.

There was MAYBE some give in the SB department. Even the Vegas contract shows some deference to the financial realities of today: "Only" $3M in signing bonus money the first two years and actually zero in the last. But those middle years are brutal: 7, 8, 8, and 6. I haven't seen any leaked information about the number that the Blues were willing to put on the SB but it was probably like $1-2 a year I would think. Likely just wasn't enough. And when you pair that with not offering a full NMC? That was the end of it.

One wonders how much difference it would've made if a full NMC was offered. That doesn't "cost" you anything as the owner, and if you were never planning to send him to the minors anyway and were going to do a full NTC what's the freakin difference? That's about the only part of this whole thing that hasn't made sense to me with Armstrong's stance and it's nothing more than stubborness and a philosophical "I'm not gonna!" on his part. "It gives the player more power than the owner". What does that even mean? Oh, so Petro can fire you Army if he gets a full NMC? What are you talking about? You can always buy a player out. That comment makes zero logical sense to me. He just doesn't like them.

I've started to make my peace with it more as the days have rolled on here but I likely never totally will. The Blues offered Petro a fair contract. $8 x 8 with some protections was not unreasonable. It was just below what the market would (and did) offer. Petro was mostly totally inflexible and whether that's his agent or him, it happened.

At the end of the day, Newport was willing to come down on the AAV and maybe some SB structure if he got the full NMC and a solid amount of SB money and the 8th year. Army wanted it the other way around: lets get the years and AAV down and we'll work with you on structure. Such a shame. Stupid it didn't happen and come together. But that's life I guess.

[theohall]

When the ROR trade happened, it wouldn't have if Berglund and his agent had done their job. The Blues were massively handicapped by NMCs and full NTCs at the time. Armstrong isn't giving those out anymore, likely for that reason. Along with when things were really bad before Berube got things turned around - tons of rumors about Steen who supposedly refused to be moved - handcuffing Armstrong due to something he gave out before.

While it sucks Petro is gone, it's part of the reality of past experience when making present judgements in Armstrong's case. Demanding everything or you walk - Big money, all bonuses, no trade - with essentially little give based on what Vegas gave him - fine - Blues and Armstrong aren't going to be strong armed. It happens all the time in sports.

Hate to use this example, but

The Patriots cut their Team Captain at the time, Lawyer Milloy. While Milloy was ticked as were several players, the impact on the locker room was players realized if they wanted to be part of that championship organization, they'd better be worth it to the organization - and Milloy wasn't worth it in relation to their cap situation at the time. They won the SB that season.

While the Blues situation isn't exactly the same - it has similarities - team captain gone very much tied to cap constraints.

[goon attack]

btw, not having another RHD is not really that big of a deal, if you ask me. having a right hander on the right side has other advantages.