Patrick Kane Subject of Police Investigation

[ecbm]

If that by itself doesn't assault the credibility of the "victim" and her mom enough to prevent charges being brought against Kane, nothing will.

The only thing that will prevent an indictment will be a determination by the prosecutor or the grand jury that the facts don't merit it-nothing else.

[Kerfuffle]

The girl's friend who was supposedly the key witness also backed out today and will no longer testify as she has problems with the accuser's story now. It's over folks.

[Kerfuffle]

This is why the Hawks and the nhl have done the right thing and not suspended him.

I'm sure you loudly protested the NHL's suspension of Voynov.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Voynov was arrested and charged, Kane was not arrested and not charged with anything. Hence...no suspension.

[ViPeRx007]

Let's just stop wasting time and make all the charges go away. You know that's what's going to happen in the end. It always does with these guys.

[Oaklandblue]

Let's just stop wasting time and make all the charges go away. You know that's what's going to happen in the end. It always does with these guys.

Wait a minute, now. How do we not know that Kane isn't really innocent and the exception to the rule here? Just because he's done all sorts of stupid, idiotic things doesn't mean that everything that occurs is his fault or doing. If anything, he put himself in a position for this to happen. Doesn't make him guilty of what they're saying he is guilty. And if their attorney has quit and then the friend, that alone says alot, especially if there's enough evidence at the table to make a jury believe their side of the story. Much as I don't like Kane, I don't want to see anybody go to jail for something that they didn't do.

[ViPeRx007]

Let's just stop wasting time and make all the charges go away. You know that's what's going to happen in the end. It always does with these guys.

Wait a minute, now. How do we not know that Kane isn't really innocent and the exception to the rule here? Just because he's done all sorts of stupid, idiotic things doesn't mean that everything that occurs is his fault or doing. If anything, he put himself in a position for this to happen. Doesn't make him guilty of what they're saying he is guilty. And if their attorney has quit and then the friend, that alone says alot, especially if there's enough evidence at the table to make a jury believe their side of the story. Much as I don't like Kane, I don't want to see anybody go to jail for something that they didn't do.

My point is that it doesn't really matter if he is or he isn't guilty, it'll all disappear regardless.

[ecbm]

This is why the Hawks and the nhl have done the right thing and not suspended him.

I'm sure you loudly protested the NHL's suspension of Voynov.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Voynov was arrested and charged, Kane was not arrested and not charged with anything. Hence...no suspension.

Voynov was, somewhat infamously, suspended before being charged.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nhl/stor ... definitely

So, clearly you weren't so concerned about a fairly analogous situation when it involved another team's player. Understood.

[Kerfuffle]

This is why the Hawks and the nhl have done the right thing and not suspended him.

I'm sure you loudly protested the NHL's suspension of Voynov.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Voynov was arrested and charged, Kane was not arrested and not charged with anything. Hence...no suspension.

Voynov was, somewhat infamously, suspended before being charged.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nhl/stor ... definitely

So, clearly you weren't so concerned about a fairly analogous situation when it involved another team's player. Understood.

you are still comparing apples to oranges. Read this story about the situation - hint there was blood all over the place and wife showed physical evidence of being beat up --> http://deadspin.com/slava-voynovs-domes ... 1671317956

Notice in the story it says clearly "upon his arrest" he was immediately suspended by the nhl. Pssst - Kane was never arrested for this incident and never charged. U can believe he was arrested and charged and nothing happened and that a great injustice was done here but that would be ignorance of the facts.

[ecbm]

This is why the Hawks and the nhl have done the right thing and not suspended him.

I'm sure you loudly protested the NHL's suspension of Voynov.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Voynov was arrested and charged, Kane was not arrested and not charged with anything. Hence...no suspension.

Being arrested and being charged are two different things. If I counter what you say, I have to imagine you'll move the goalposts again. But I'll go ahead. The specific act of the arrest is not at all why Voynov was suspended. He was suspended because of the possibility that he had committed a heinous crime.

I simply don't believe that you would maintain this position so strongly if it weren't a Chicago player-or even if it were an insignificant Chicago player-in question.

[Kerfuffle]

This is why the Hawks and the nhl have done the right thing and not suspended him.

I'm sure you loudly protested the NHL's suspension of Voynov.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Voynov was arrested and charged, Kane was not arrested and not charged with anything. Hence...no suspension.

Being arrested and being charged are two different things. If I counter what you say, I have to imagine you'll move the goalposts again. But I'll go ahead. The specific act of the arrest is not at all why Voynov was suspended. He was suspended because of the possibility that he had committed a heinous crime.

I simply don't believe that you would maintain this position so strongly if it weren't a Chicago player-or even if it were an insignificant Chicago player-in question.

Nothing has changed - you keep inferring Kane was arrested here and that some grave injustice was done because discipline isn't consistently handed out by the league. I'm going to repeat it to you again - he was NEVER arrested and was NEVER charged. Voynov had BOTH of these things done to him. Why do you not understand that?

[cprice12]

Was Kane ever suspended, fined, or disciplined in any way shape or form by the Blackhawks due to his past screw ups?

Like I pointed out before... Oshie was suspended 2 games...2 GAMES...by the Blues for oversleeping and missing a practice. God only knows what the Blues would have done if he were accused of raping a woman and it was high profile news. But you can be damn sure he at least wouldn't be playing until that situation was resolved.

I thought the penalty for Oshie missing practice was a little harsh, but there were likely other things going on with him (personal conduct things) that the team felt they needed to get in check and send him a message. He had a reputation as a party boy too. But he seemed to straighten up after being suspended by the team.

It seems the Blackhawks do NOT enforce that kind of internal policy...even though they have publicly stated that they will not tolerate such things.

A buddy of mine from college is a Blackhawks fan...lives in Chicago. And I just had a text conversation with him, and he thinks the Blackhawks have handled this whole thing very poorly. He thinks they should have held Kane out until this whole thing was resolved. With that said, he doesn't think he will be charged with anything either. So...just another Hawk fan's 2 cents.

[WaukeeBlues]

In this guy's humble opinion... it's over.

Once it came out that the "victim's" mom lied to her daughter's attorney about "finding" an evidence bag at her doorstep... Credibility, whatever was left of it, was shot. And if that's the mom's credibility and we assume the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and it was a weak case to begin with...

I truly feel bad for the girl's attorney. You can never trust your own client too much but when they take you to the cleaner's like that, you believe them, make public pronouncements that end up being false and having to withdraw from a case, that's pretty dang bad.

[Kerfuffle]

Was Kane ever suspended, fined, or disciplined in any way shape or form by the Blackhawks due to his past screw ups?

Like I pointed out before... Oshie was suspended 2 games...2 GAMES...by the Blues for oversleeping and missing a practice. God only knows what the Blues would have done if he were accused of raping a woman and it was high profile news. But you can be damn sure he at least wouldn't be playing until that situation was resolved.

I thought the penalty for Oshie missing practice was a little harsh, but there were likely other things going on with him (personal conduct things) that the team felt they needed to get in check and send him a message. He had a reputation as a party boy too. But he seemed to straighten up after being suspended by the team.

It seems the Blackhawks do NOT enforce that kind of internal policy...even though they have publicly stated that they will not tolerate such things.

A buddy of mine from college is a Blackhawks fan...lives in Chicago. And I just had a text conversation with him, and he thinks the Blackhawks have handled this whole thing very poorly. He thinks they should have held Kane out until this whole thing was resolved. With that said, he doesn't think he will be charged with anything either. So...just another Hawk fan's 2 cents.

There's always incidents of players missing a practice, oversleeping, hung over, missing a flight, late to practice in professional sports and yes it's very common for the team to suspend that player and if he's young enough even send back to the minors as punishment. I don't see how that is remotely tied to this though. If Oshie was in the same situation the Blues would have done the same thing both the Hawks and NHL did....nothing. I disagree with the Hawks and how they handled the press conference but letting Kane start right away was the right thing to do.

Also think of the precedent that you are demanding - in that any player accused of something should automatically sit and/or be suspended until the investigation clears such player. Think about that - now imagine the Blues deep in a playoff run and a competing team's fan decides to accuse Tank of being a child molester. No arrest and no charges are made but it makes the press and there's a lot of buzz and negativity to the Blues organization and Tank - causing a distraction at a critical point of the playoffs. According to what you are advocating Tank would be immediately suspended by the Blues and withheld from all games until the matter clears him. See the problem with that line of thinking? It could be easily used to manipulate the game. That is why you have to allow some presumption of innocence especially in the face of no arrest and no charges.

[Kerfuffle]

also cprice, you're stating that Kane has had no punishment from the team but you don't know that. The hawks are a private organization and try to keep things private. Just because you haven't heard something made public doesn't mean nothing was discussed or action taken behind closed doors.

[cprice12]

Was Kane ever suspended, fined, or disciplined in any way shape or form by the Blackhawks due to his past screw ups?

Like I pointed out before... Oshie was suspended 2 games...2 GAMES...by the Blues for oversleeping and missing a practice. God only knows what the Blues would have done if he were accused of raping a woman and it was high profile news. But you can be damn sure he at least wouldn't be playing until that situation was resolved.

I thought the penalty for Oshie missing practice was a little harsh, but there were likely other things going on with him (personal conduct things) that the team felt they needed to get in check and send him a message. He had a reputation as a party boy too. But he seemed to straighten up after being suspended by the team.

It seems the Blackhawks do NOT enforce that kind of internal policy...even though they have publicly stated that they will not tolerate such things.

A buddy of mine from college is a Blackhawks fan...lives in Chicago. And I just had a text conversation with him, and he thinks the Blackhawks have handled this whole thing very poorly. He thinks they should have held Kane out until this whole thing was resolved. With that said, he doesn't think he will be charged with anything either. So...just another Hawk fan's 2 cents.

There's always incidents of players missing a practice, oversleeping, hung over, missing a flight, late to practice in professional sports and yes it's very common for the team to suspend that player and if he's young enough even send back to the minors as punishment. I don't see how that is remotely tied to this though. If Oshie was in the same situation the Blues would have done the same thing both the Hawks and NHL did....nothing. I disagree with the Hawks and how they handled the press conference but letting Kane start right away was the right thing to do.

Also think of the precedent that you are demanding - in that any player accused of something should automatically sit and/or be suspended until the investigation clears such player. Think about that - now imagine the Blues deep in a playoff run and a competing team's fan decides to accuse Tank of being a child molester. No arrest and no charges are made but it makes the press and there's a lot of buzz and negativity to the Blues organization and Tank - causing a distraction at a critical point of the playoffs. According to what you are advocating Tank would be immediately suspended by the Blues and withheld from all games until the matter clears him. See the problem with that line of thinking? It could be easily used to manipulate the game. That is why you have to allow some presumption of innocence especially in the face of no arrest and no charges.

Yeah, but we're not in the playoffs right now. It's friggin' preseason.
I think at this point in the season, you sit Kane out for a bit. You'd have to rethink that strategy though in the playoffs because of the reason you stated. But with that said... you seem to imply that anyone can just accuse a player of rape, like it's an easy thing to do. I don't see it that way at all. It just doesn't happen that often. How many times have you heard of that happening in the past five years? Ten years? I can think of one off the top of my head...and it's this one with Kane.

And the Oshie suspension just proves that the Blues are willing to discipline a player when they get out of line.
The Hawks have not proven that they will do that. And I'm not even really talking about the alleged rape thing...I'm talking more about the other things Kane has done and been involved with that have embarrassed the organization.

Would the Hawks suspend Kane for two games if he missed a practice? Maybe they would now because of the pressure to do something...but I doubt they would have before this rape accusation since they failed to suspend him for other more serious things.

My buddy got a new Kane jersey last year...and he said he may never wear it again. He is now disgusted by Kane...and like I said, he thinks he is innocent, but his entire body of work off the ice is just an eye sore. He's a great player, but he's a PR nightmare off the ice. I would imagine a lot of Hawk fans feel this way about him.

[Kerfuffle]

... you seem to imply that anyone can just accuse a player of rape, like it's an easy thing to do. I don't see it that way at all. It just doesn't happen that often. How many times have you heard of that happening in the past five years? Ten years? I can think of one off the top of my head...and it's this one with Kane.

It's not common but if it happens to you it's 100%. I have the same conversation when people tell me air travel is the safest form of travel whenever a plane crash happens. And I say the same thing - yeah it is the safest but if it's you who loses your life it's 100%. Is Kane unlucky? No - his partying and choice of friends put him in bad situations. But no one deserves to be falsely accused of rape.

And the Oshie suspension just proves that the Blues are willing to discipline a player when they get out of line. The Hawks have not proven that they will do that. And I'm not even really talking about the alleged rape thing...I'm talking more about the other things Kane has done and been involved with that have embarrassed the organization..

You don't know if they done anything about it. You are making a judgement based on the fact that you personally have not been informed or seen something in the media. Given how image conscious our organization is (and it's over the top at times) I find it highly unlikely that the front office is just turning a blind eye to his hard partying.

Would the Hawks suspend Kane for two games if he missed a practice? Maybe they would now because of the pressure to do something...but I doubt they would have before this rape accusation since they failed to suspend him for other more serious things...

When he was a rookie it was reported he showed up late and hung over to a practice - it was a strong rumor but not one the Hawks ever verified but supposed inside sources said it was handled privately. Was it? I don't know.

My buddy got a new Kane jersey last year...and he said he may never wear it again. He is now disgusted by Kane...and like I said, he thinks he is innocent, but his entire body of work off the ice is just an eye sore. He's a great player, but he's a PR nightmare off the ice. I would imagine a lot of Hawk fans feel this way about him.

I don't like the guy either as a person, I don't see him as a role model, I don't want him as a friend, and yes I'm concerned that my 6 year old's favorite player is Kane and my wife and I are wondering if we will let him wear his jersey again. You don't have to like a player or think he's a good human being to be a fan of his team or his game on the ice.

[Oaklandblue]

Was Kane ever suspended, fined, or disciplined in any way shape or form by the Blackhawks due to his past screw ups?

Like I pointed out before... Oshie was suspended 2 games...2 GAMES...by the Blues for oversleeping and missing a practice. God only knows what the Blues would have done if he were accused of raping a woman and it was high profile news. But you can be damn sure he at least wouldn't be playing until that situation was resolved.

I thought the penalty for Oshie missing practice was a little harsh, but there were likely other things going on with him (personal conduct things) that the team felt they needed to get in check and send him a message. He had a reputation as a party boy too. But he seemed to straighten up after being suspended by the team.

It seems the Blackhawks do NOT enforce that kind of internal policy...even though they have publicly stated that they will not tolerate such things.

A buddy of mine from college is a Blackhawks fan...lives in Chicago. And I just had a text conversation with him, and he thinks the Blackhawks have handled this whole thing very poorly. He thinks they should have held Kane out until this whole thing was resolved. With that said, he doesn't think he will be charged with anything either. So...just another Hawk fan's 2 cents.

There's always incidents of players missing a practice, oversleeping, hung over, missing a flight, late to practice in professional sports and yes it's very common for the team to suspend that player and if he's young enough even send back to the minors as punishment. I don't see how that is remotely tied to this though. If Oshie was in the same situation the Blues would have done the same thing both the Hawks and NHL did....nothing. I disagree with the Hawks and how they handled the press conference but letting Kane start right away was the right thing to do.

Also think of the precedent that you are demanding - in that any player accused of something should automatically sit and/or be suspended until the investigation clears such player. Think about that - now imagine the Blues deep in a playoff run and a competing team's fan decides to accuse Tank of being a child molester. No arrest and no charges are made but it makes the press and there's a lot of buzz and negativity to the Blues organization and Tank - causing a distraction at a critical point of the playoffs. According to what you are advocating Tank would be immediately suspended by the Blues and withheld from all games until the matter clears him. See the problem with that line of thinking? It could be easily used to manipulate the game. That is why you have to allow some presumption of innocence especially in the face of no arrest and no charges.

Yeah, but we're not in the playoffs right now. It's friggin' preseason.
I think at this point in the season, you sit Kane out for a bit. You'd have to rethink that strategy though in the playoffs because of the reason you stated. But with that said... you seem to imply that anyone can just accuse a player of rape, like it's an easy thing to do. I don't see it that way at all. It just doesn't happen that often. How many times have you heard of that happening in the past five years? Ten years? I can think of one off the top of my head...and it's this one with Kane.

And the Oshie suspension just proves that the Blues are willing to discipline a player when they get out of line.
The Hawks have not proven that they will do that. And I'm not even really talking about the alleged rape thing...I'm talking more about the other things Kane has done and been involved with that have embarrassed the organization.

Would the Hawks suspend Kane for two games if he missed a practice? Maybe they would now because of the pressure to do something...but I doubt they would have before this rape accusation since they failed to suspend him for other more serious things.

My buddy got a new Kane jersey last year...and he said he may never wear it again. He is now disgusted by Kane...and like I said, he thinks he is innocent, but his entire body of work off the ice is just an eye sore. He's a great player, but he's a PR nightmare off the ice. I would imagine a lot of Hawk fans feel this way about him.

3 Stanley Cups, first American forward to win the Conn, repeated <70 point season producer, repeated ~20 point producer in the playoffs.

I think Hawks fans, in general, sleep fine over it....sadly....

As for Oshie vs Kane....seriously? Isn't it kind of rude to say how one team's FO should handle a team over another? Because if the Blues bench Oshie for something or the Isles send someone down for being late the first day to practice means the Hawks should follow the same thing? Each team's team is a separate, unique dynamic that operates autonomously under the rules of the NHL and PA, and no one here knows what is happening behind closed doors. Nothing they do or don't do in this case is against the rules. It's purely a FO or coach decision.

I find it funny that the Blues handle things one way and can't win a Cup or even come close to one and the Hawks operate a different way and they're racking up Cups. Maybe a lesson is to be learned here?

And to note, Kane is still not being held on charges of anything. Why suspend a guy that hasn't done anything wrong? If this court case was that solid, people wouldn't be walking away from it. If there is a case, the State DA will pick it up and go after him even if all of the persons involve drop out.

[ecbm]

I find it funny that the Blues handle things one way and can't win a Cup or even come close to one and the Hawks operate a different way and they're racking up Cups. Maybe a lesson is to be learned here?

Yeah, but I don't think it's what you're thinking it is. It has to do with 'ends', 'means' and justification. Then there's the need to avoid confusion between causation & correlation, another lesson that's demonstrated here.

you keep inferring Kane was arrested here

No, I have not. I cede that you are correct, Kane was not arrested. This doesn't contradict anything I've written. It was even implied when I stated that the arrest, specifically, was not why Voynov was suspended. Remember-nothing was crystal clear to start with there either. His wife never wanted to press charges or cooperate with police after the arrest. So there were marks on her? Yeah, there were. And medical professionals thought the situation involving Kane merited administering a rape kit.

What I will return to-what you definitely did write earlier in this thread:

Voynov was arrested and charged, Kane was not arrested and not charged with anything. Hence...no suspension.

While Voynov was arrested in contrast with Kane, he was suspended before being charged when he very well may not have been charged. The act of Voynov being taken into custody is not the reason why his punishment was more severe and swift. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure why but I have trouble banishing a couple of suspicions: the NHL doesn't take rape as seriously as other crimes, which is a cultural problem here generally, and that Kane is a bona fide superstar which Voynov is not. Also, I'll go ahead and say it, Voynov being foreign probably didn't help him either.

As I've said before about this: sordid shit. The NHL's bullshit squeaky-clean image has well and truly been retired.

[cprice12]

... you seem to imply that anyone can just accuse a player of rape, like it's an easy thing to do. I don't see it that way at all. It just doesn't happen that often. How many times have you heard of that happening in the past five years? Ten years? I can think of one off the top of my head...and it's this one with Kane.

It's not common but if it happens to you it's 100%. I have the same conversation when people tell me air travel is the safest form of travel whenever a plane crash happens. And I say the same thing - yeah it is the safest but if it's you who loses your life it's 100%. Is Kane unlucky? No - his partying and choice of friends put him in bad situations. But no one deserves to be falsely accused of rape.

I'm not saying rape accusations aren't serious because they don't happen that often in the NHL. I never said that. What I am saying is that you seem to think that rape accusations can all of a sudden start happening willy nilly if a precedent is set to where a player is suspended after being accused of rape, simply because an opposing fan wants to get a star player out of a playoff game.

That is a pretty outrageous and speculative claim to make based on a wild guess, and I think that would be a terrible reason to not hold a player out of practices and games when something as serious as a rape accusation is under investigation.

And the Oshie suspension just proves that the Blues are willing to discipline a player when they get out of line. The Hawks have not proven that they will do that. And I'm not even really talking about the alleged rape thing...I'm talking more about the other things Kane has done and been involved with that have embarrassed the organization..

You don't know if they done anything about it. You are making a judgement based on the fact that you personally have not been informed or seen something in the media. Given how image conscious our organization is (and it's over the top at times) I find it highly unlikely that the front office is just turning a blind eye to his hard partying.

If anything of significance was done for disciplinary purposes, you'd have heard about it. Fines are reported, so are suspensions. Reporters would have been all over it.
But...I guess, maybe they said he couldn't use the locker room whirlpool for a month, or something like that...so yes, I guess it IS possible SOMETHING was done. I will give you that.

Would the Hawks suspend Kane for two games if he missed a practice? Maybe they would now because of the pressure to do something...but I doubt they would have before this rape accusation since they failed to suspend him for other more serious things...

When he was a rookie it was reported he showed up late and hung over to a practice - it was a strong rumor but not one the Hawks ever verified but supposed inside sources said it was handled privately. Was it? I don't know.

Obviously it wasn't handled well enough, if anything was done at all.

My buddy got a new Kane jersey last year...and he said he may never wear it again. He is now disgusted by Kane...and like I said, he thinks he is innocent, but his entire body of work off the ice is just an eye sore. He's a great player, but he's a PR nightmare off the ice. I would imagine a lot of Hawk fans feel this way about him.

I don't like the guy either as a person, I don't see him as a role model, I don't want him as a friend, and yes I'm concerned that my 6 year old's favorite player is Kane and my wife and I are wondering if we will let him wear his jersey again. You don't have to like a player or think he's a good human being to be a fan of his team or his game on the ice.

Oh, I know. You are talking to a guy who roots for a team that employed Mike Danton. But when his murder for hire plot came about, his NHL career was over...so there was no chance for me to root for the team he played for after that incident. Not that I was heartbroken that he wasn't on the team anymore...and he wasn't really missed anyway since he wasn't very good. Entertaining on the ice, yes...but he wasn't missed.

I'm sure it's a tough position for a lot of Hawk fans. They root for the team, but some don't like Kane for reasons other than his play on the ice.
But for me...it's much, much easier to root for a player who is a dick on the ice but is a super nice and stand up guy off the ice. He plays a role on the ice...it's his job...and he does it to help the team win. I'll root for that all game long...I have zero issues with that. I was a huge Pronger fan. I get a kick out of Ott's on the ice antics...etc. I get that. But I'd have a really hard time rooting for a player who is a complete asshole who has run ins with the law off the ice. That's just a bad person, and for me, that's a much harder thing to overlook so I can root for him on the ice.
And other players on other teams...if they are assholes on the ice, I can't stand them...but I say that purely in a competitive sense. I don't REALLY hate them as a person off the ice...I just hate them in the role they play on their team. That's just called being an involved fan I think. I dunno.