off season mid term status report

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off season mid term status report

Postby flyingnote38 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:35 pm

Strong start by Armstrong. All he needs to do is finish his remaining tasks on time and he gets an "A"

obvious positives
cost effectively addressed goaltending situation
signed badly needed scoring line center
kept draft picks and scored big on first 2 picks with badly needed center prospects

ancillary positives
restored forward depth adding 2 probable top 6 forwards and an additional top 12 forward without subtracting from our top 9 or near NHL ready forward prospects (Jaskin, Rattie)
perhaps heisted a dman from Toronto while adding an additional pick
maybe showing an interest in advanced metrics? of the 7 Blues regulars with goal for percentage below 50 last season, 3 are gone and the rest are seemingly moving down the depth chart. Both Stastny and Gunarsson were among the best possession players on their teams. Blues quickly lost interest in Ott (who sucks at hockey) after hiring Corsi - coincidence?
satisfied need to acquire former Dallas Star player who is washed up and can't play hockey anymore by signing one as a coach.

left to do
sign Schwartz and Sobotka
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby ComradeT » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:44 pm

flyingnote38 wrote:Strong start by Armstrong. All he needs to do is finish his remaining tasks on time and he gets an "A"

obvious positives
cost effectively addressed goaltending situation
signed badly needed scoring line center
kept draft picks and scored big on first 2 picks with badly needed center prospects

ancillary positives
restored forward depth adding 2 probable top 6 forwards and an additional top 12 forward without subtracting from our top 9 or near NHL ready forward prospects (Jaskin, Rattie)
perhaps heisted a dman from Toronto while adding an additional pick
maybe showing an interest in advanced metrics? of the 7 Blues regulars with goal for percentage below 50 last season, 3 are gone and the rest are seemingly moving down the depth chart. Both Stastny and Gunarsson were among the best possession players on their teams. Blues quickly lost interest in Ott (who sucks at hockey) after hiring Corsi - coincidence?
satisfied need to acquire former Dallas Star player who is washed up and can't play hockey anymore by signing one as a coach.

left to do
sign Schwartz and Sobotka


Maybe a scary thought here... But with the abundance at center, could it be possible that Boat is surplus to requirements?
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby Misc. Blues » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:47 pm

ComradeT wrote:
flyingnote38 wrote:Strong start by Armstrong. All he needs to do is finish his remaining tasks on time and he gets an "A"

obvious positives
cost effectively addressed goaltending situation
signed badly needed scoring line center
kept draft picks and scored big on first 2 picks with badly needed center prospects

ancillary positives
restored forward depth adding 2 probable top 6 forwards and an additional top 12 forward without subtracting from our top 9 or near NHL ready forward prospects (Jaskin, Rattie)
perhaps heisted a dman from Toronto while adding an additional pick
maybe showing an interest in advanced metrics? of the 7 Blues regulars with goal for percentage below 50 last season, 3 are gone and the rest are seemingly moving down the depth chart. Both Stastny and Gunarsson were among the best possession players on their teams. Blues quickly lost interest in Ott (who sucks at hockey) after hiring Corsi - coincidence?
satisfied need to acquire former Dallas Star player who is washed up and can't play hockey anymore by signing one as a coach.

left to do
sign Schwartz and Sobotka


Maybe a scary thought here... But with the abundance at center, could it be possible that Boat is surplus to requirements?
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby dmiles2186 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:38 pm

Don't forget Joakim Lindstrom. I know he may have zero impact, but it's a low risk signing. Guy might be a nice surprise if he can chip in from time to time, and at the very least, be a call up.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby flyingnote38 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:07 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:Don't forget Joakim Lindstrom. I know he may have zero impact, but it's a low risk signing. Guy might be a nice surprise if he can chip in from time to time, and at the very least, be a call up.


He's the "additional top 12 forward" I was referring to.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby flyingnote38 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:21 pm

here's the possession stats sorted by goals for % (percentage of goals scored by Blues while player on ice 5 vs 5) for players who suited up for at least 21 games for the Blues last season
http://www.extraskater.com/players/poss ... eason=2013

things to note:

7 players with GF% below 50 meaning other team scored more goals than we did when player was on ice. Cola, Polak and Ott gone. Lapierre, Reaves, and Porter likely being marginalized. Paajarvi? Make or break year for him.

3 of the 4 players who were basically break even propositions (Roy, Morrow, Stewart, Jackman) also gone

for all the Berglund haters. Blues scored 60.6% of the 5 on 5 goals with Beglund on the ice, which was 5th best on the Blues.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby CanesandBluesFan » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:03 pm

Army has talked about using Analytics

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ho ... d/9130033/

Q. How does your front office use analytics-based techniques?

A. We're heavily involved in analytics. When I was managing the Dallas [Stars] (Armstrong spent six years as Dallas GM), we were one of the teams that got in on the ground floor [of the analytics movement], and brought that to St. Louis. We believe in analytics as a tool to use to determine someone's value. [But] it's only a tool to be used, not the one solution [for] all people.


I hope the Analytics guy wasn't asked about Miller.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:04 pm

The Blues are definitely better as far as the skaters go but a question still remains in goal. Can Elliot and Allen really take the Blues all the way to the Cup?

Look at the teams who can still beat the Blues in 7 games. Hawks, Kings, Ducks, and maybe the Sharks, Stars, Avs, and even the Wild! It's so ironic that now the Blues are finally good enough to beat Detroit but they're not even in the same conference anymore!
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby STLADOGG » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:59 pm

Like JesusAintReal said, I too just don't have FAITH in our goalies either.
I would have trusted Miller 10X more than our guys right now. Hopefully they can prove me wrong.
Also with the absence of the beast Polak, I'm even more worried about our goals against.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:51 am

If the Blues were in the east I bet they have a great chance of making at least the conference finals every year but the West is so damn tough! You know how the Cards are in the NL east? So why couldn't the Blues be in the eastern conference?
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby STLADOGG » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:31 am

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:If the Blues were in the east I bet they have a great chance of making at least the conference finals every year but the West is so damn tough! You know how the Cards are in the NL east? So why couldn't the Blues be in the eastern conference?

The cards are in the NL Central.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby cprice12 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:48 am

STLADOGG wrote:Like JesusAintReal said, I too just don't have FAITH in our goalies either.
I would have trusted Miller 10X more than our guys right now. Hopefully they can prove me wrong.
Also with the absence of the beast Polak, I'm even more worried about our goals against.


Why would you not have faith in Elliott? I can see not having faith in Allen because he has very little NHL experience, small sample size, etc, but Elliott has done nothing but put up great numbers since he has been here...and was outstanding as the #1 down the stretch two seasons ago to get us into the playoffs.
I have always had more confidence in Elliott than Halak. And while I'm sure Miller would have played fine for us, Elliott will likely put up better numbers and more importantly saves us a lot of money which allowed us to afford Stastny.

I think Elliott will be just fine. I'm not so sure about Allen yet...we'll have to see.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby cprice12 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:50 am

STLADOGG wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:If the Blues were in the east I bet they have a great chance of making at least the conference finals every year but the West is so damn tough! You know how the Cards are in the NL east? So why couldn't the Blues be in the eastern conference?

The cards are in the NL Central.


I guess he was thinking 25 years ago.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby cardsfan04 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:57 am

I get where you guys are coming from with questions about goal. Elliott is the starter and he's never been THE guy before. And, if he falters we have an unproven backup. I get all that, but I'm still like the direction we went for a few reasons:

1. Addressing offense was the primary need. We did a very good job of that. We might have been able to do both, but going with Elliott and Allen left more payroll flexibility to go after Stastny. We might even have room to make another splash.

2. I think our goaltending the past few years has partially been a product of the team in front on them. I don't think we can just plug anybody in there, but I think we have more flexibility than most teams.

3. Elliott and Allen aren't exactly awful options in net. Allen is probably the biggest goalie prospect in hockey coming off of a very nice season in the AHL and Elliott has been very good here. We might not have a Vezina candidate here, but I don't think they're going to be a liability either.

Basically, going from Halak/Elliott/no Stastny last year to Elliot/Allen/Stastny this year, I'll take this year's combination for sure. Hell, I'd take it over Miller/Allen/no Stastny as well.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby STLADOGG » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:15 am

cprice12 wrote:
STLADOGG wrote:Like JesusAintReal said, I too just don't have FAITH in our goalies either.
I would have trusted Miller 10X more than our guys right now. Hopefully they can prove me wrong.
Also with the absence of the beast Polak, I'm even more worried about our goals against.


Why would you not have faith in Elliott? I can see not having faith in Allen because he has very little NHL experience, small sample size, etc, but Elliott has done nothing but put up great numbers since he has been here...and was outstanding as the #1 down the stretch two seasons ago to get us into the playoffs.
I have always had more confidence in Elliott than Halak. And while I'm sure Miller would have played fine for us, Elliott will likely put up better numbers and more importantly saves us a lot of money which allowed us to afford Stastny.

I think Elliott will be just fine. I'm not so sure about Allen yet...we'll have to see.

We had Ells in one of the playoff years and we didn't win.
He played good but that's because the team wasn't taking offensive chances like they were with Miller.
If you aren't concerned with Ells in the playoffs then I think your in denial.
Also I believe Ells is maybe the top backup in the league, but the key word there is back up. I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby cprice12 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:56 am

STLADOGG wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
STLADOGG wrote:Like JesusAintReal said, I too just don't have FAITH in our goalies either.
I would have trusted Miller 10X more than our guys right now. Hopefully they can prove me wrong.
Also with the absence of the beast Polak, I'm even more worried about our goals against.


Why would you not have faith in Elliott? I can see not having faith in Allen because he has very little NHL experience, small sample size, etc, but Elliott has done nothing but put up great numbers since he has been here...and was outstanding as the #1 down the stretch two seasons ago to get us into the playoffs.
I have always had more confidence in Elliott than Halak. And while I'm sure Miller would have played fine for us, Elliott will likely put up better numbers and more importantly saves us a lot of money which allowed us to afford Stastny.

I think Elliott will be just fine. I'm not so sure about Allen yet...we'll have to see.

We had Ells in one of the playoff years and we didn't win.
He played good but that's because the team wasn't taking offensive chances like they were with Miller.
If you aren't concerned with Ells in the playoffs then I think your in denial.
Also I believe Ells is maybe the top backup in the league, but the key word there is back up. I hope I'm wrong.


I'm not concerned with Elliott in the playoffs because there is no reason to be at this time. When he was in net in the playoffs vs. the Kings two years ago, he was good. But the offense was exposed as lacking. You have to score to win...and we didn't.
If he has a poor regular season I may adjust my stance, but as of right now, I'm fine with him in net. He has earned it and I am glad he is getting a shot at it.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby ViPeRx007 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:19 pm

Elliott deserves the chance to be a #1 and it's time to see what we have in Allen. It's that simple. Let's give them a chance before we start freaking out.

It's not like Miller or Halak were overly amazing for us. I could see Elliott putting up similar numbers, honestly. I suppose the concern most people have is the playoff experience though, right? The type of playoff experience that Halak and Miller have?

Hmm...
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby JesusNEVERexisted » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:21 am

cprice12 wrote:
STLADOGG wrote:
JesusNEVERexisted wrote:If the Blues were in the east I bet they have a great chance of making at least the conference finals every year but the West is so damn tough! You know how the Cards are in the NL east? So why couldn't the Blues be in the eastern conference?

The cards are in the NL Central.


I guess he was thinking 25 years ago.


LOL..yeah. I don't even like baseball but I do remember the Cards being in the NL east. Shows you how closely I follow boreball. :lol:
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby dmiles2186 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:03 am

I'm okay with the Elliott/Allen combo. More unproven goalies have won the Stanley Cup compared to those too. So the optimistic side says it can happen. But, I can never get over Elliott's really bad years in Ottawa and Colorado. I just feel like he's always got that lurking, like it could overtake him and he could lapse into that goalie again. I'm not saying it will happen, mind you. I know he's played great hockey for us. And there are plenty of goalies who shake off bad years in their careers to become good or even great goalies. I just am always worried about that.

But I'd rather go this route because, as I've stated before, it gives Allen a chance to grow in a backup role without being 'the guy.' And when he's ready to take over, he will.
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Re: off season mid term status report

Postby APOD » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:50 am

dmiles2186 wrote:I can never get over Elliott's really bad years in Ottawa and Colorado. I just feel like he's always got that lurking, like it could overtake him and he could lapse into that goalie again.


He has only really had 2 bad years 2010-11(last year in Ottawa/First and last in Colorado) and 2012-2013 the lock out season I honestly think alot of goalies had issues that year no one expected a season so training was lax.
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